Bob The Badger

Genius.
And I thought Oscar Wilde was dead.

Well, as you know I lived in the US for a long time and as I said, I do still tend to follow US news. I should have checked because I'm wrong with doctors, it's over 96% fully vaccinated, not 97% as I outrageously and shockingly claimed.
I take your point as you slide the goalposts to one side and ask about their families though, because that is very much a supposition and based on common sense and my own anecdotal evidence. Which I hasten to add, is not scientifically valid, but can have value.
Ok @Norman? ?
Seeing as there is no legal requirement in the US (at least that I have heard) it would be extremely weird for a doctor to get a vaccine (presumably because they thought it worked) and not suggest their family have it too. Dontchya think? 
That would be like putting your seat belt on and not suggesting your family bother with theirs.
Or you cut out sugar and high fat fpr health reasons foods whilst giving it to your loved ones.
Time to pay Mr Google a visit.
Well look at that, a 2.7 second search suggests that, according to the BMJ,  about 5 weeks ago over 90% of NHS Trust staff were fully vaccinated and 93% had at least one vaccination.
I'm not saying that's overwhelming, but ya know, it kinda is.
Maybe techs and nurses are really high and doctors lower? Seems on the scale between highly implausible and ludicrous, but who knows? 
Plus, it that doesn't fit with NHS being frustrated at lower level staff refusing to get vaccinated.
It's such a conundrum G Star, it really is.
 
 
 

The poster said he wasn't offering anecdotal evidence, I said he was.
I didn't say he shouldn't, or that I didn't.
It's frequently all we have.
Try and follow the plot.

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

It's probably fear and/or ignorance.
And who cares if you have seen an extreme example?
That is so utterly meaningless.
It's like me saying I saw a guy shouting and swearing at the security guy in Tesco's that it's all fake before storming (which I did about 5 or 6 weeks ago and still have part of on camera), so what?
I doubt if you'd seen 20 people without masks going about there business that you would be sharing that nugget of information. 
I walked my dogs this morning and it didn't rain even though I put my waterproofs on.
It never rains in Cornwall, clearly.
 
 

Part of me wished I could type faster and more accurately, but then part of me thinks that would just give you more to ignore.
Do politicians deny smoking and drinking are unhealthy because they may partake in either, or both.
Is Boris saying " there's nothing unhealthy about being fat, look at me, I'm fat and I'm not dead'?
Do you know anybody terrified of sugar even though it kills millions of people every year?
This isn't a case of being terrified, this is a case of putting public health first.
I can't stand Johnson and I can see he is in a no-win situation with half his Party hating him. So I kinda think he maybe realises we're in a hole here.
I dread to think what the right would be saying of we had a labour PM. The country would be in civil war.

I still have a tendency to follow US news first and the AMA have said 97% of physicians are fully vaccinated. 
I'd be stunned if the figure in the UK is dramatically lower. Feel free to point me to updated stats because I could be wrong. 

If you extrapolate the data out from the people in this thread, it sounds to me like people are dropping like flies after having the vaccine.
Yet doctors are still overwhelmingly in favour of getting it for themselves and giving it to their families.
It appears we have a bunch of homicidal and suicidal psychopaths running our health service.
 

It was you that made the claim that:-
'Yet doctors are still overwhelmingly in favour of getting it for themselves and giving it to their families.'
So I would assume you already have the facts to back this up?
FWIW I could not find any stats at all about doctors in favour of giving it to their families but will obviously accept it when you provide the evidence. 

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

You need to put a sarcasm alert here or some will take it literally.

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

That is actually the very definition of anecdotal evidence - personal stories.
I run Facebook groups with about 10k people in them and I have maybe another 10k people follow me on social media and I literally don't know anybody who had a severe problem. I'm not saying that means they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but I'd say your experience is incredibly unusual. If we ll knew a couple of people who'd died and two more who almost did nobody would be having the vaccine, especially not doctors who know that it poses that level of danger.
I know my wife thinks all NHS staff should be vaccinated and so do her immediate colleagues. It was the same in the US before we moved back. She's never met a medical professional who isn't in favour of that. Although that's anecdotal and I'm sure there are some.
My wife already has to have 5 vaccinations to be able to work in the NHS, so I'm not sure why adding another is any different.
Can you explain that?
It seems to get swept under the carpet by people lashing out at this.
She had a patient last month who has colorectal cancer and needed some procedure or other. He not only refused to be vaccinated but wouldn't let them test him. Their guidelines are not to treat people like that, but they did. They cleared the area at a huge amount of time that then wasn't spent with other patients, removed all nonessential staff and treated the selfish ducker because they recognise their duty of care and they're professionals.
Things like that that are happening get missed by people because they're not really that newsworthy, but it's that kind of collateral damage that is seriously hurting the NHS and is born out of selfishness. There were no clinical grounds for the man not having the jab or at least being tested.
I'm against making vaccines mandatory through society, but if somebody wants to work with highly vulnerable people then grow up and get vaccinated.

Or storm off in a huff.
 

BTW @Carl Sagan my wife's best friend left Romania during the Ceausescu regime (although in fairness she was very young, it was her parents who left and took her and her sister to the US), my Grandfather left Poland when the Nazis invaded and the enlisted in the Navy, and I have a client who left China after being targeted as a dangerous individual (because she was a women who wanted to be climber and scale peaks over seas) and they all say 'thank duck we weren't born in Wales' .
 

I dunno  if I had a vote I'd like it to end tomorrow,
My mum and dad didn't get a vote on how long WWII went on for, they just managed a situation that was crappy for everyone.  
If only they'd been asked it could have ended sooner. 

It's probably fear and/or ignorance.
And who cares if you have seen an extreme example?
That is so utterly meaningless.
It's like me saying I saw a guy shouting and swearing at the security guy in Tesco's that it's all fake before storming (which I did about 5 or 6 weeks ago and still have part of on camera), so what?
I doubt if you'd seen 20 people without masks going about there business that you would be sharing that nugget of information. 
I walked my dogs this morning and it didn't rain even though I put my waterproofs on.
It never rains in Cornwall, clearly.
 
 

Part of me wished I could type faster and more accurately, but then part of me thinks that would just give you more to ignore.
Do politicians deny smoking and drinking are unhealthy because they may partake in either, or both.
Is Boris saying " there's nothing unhealthy about being fat, look at me, I'm fat and I'm not dead'?
Do you know anybody terrified of sugar even though it kills millions of people every year?
This isn't a case of being terrified, this is a case of putting public health first.
I can't stand Johnson and I can see he is in a no-win situation with half his Party hating him. So I kinda think he maybe realises we're in a hole here.
I dread to think what the right would be saying of we had a labour PM. The country would be in civil war.

There are people in this thread who think we should all get doubled jabbed, boosted and wear masks in public.
If we're wrong  and it's not necessary, you have a slightly achy arm and a you have to enunciate more clearly when talking in a public space.
If those of you that think it's unnecessary are wrong, hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people die (potentially you) and this drags on forever.
This is such a ridiculous argument to me.
Get vaccinated, wear a mask and then if this is all a waste of time, mock the duck out of us afterwards for you being slightly inconvenienced as opposed to being dead.

The problem, or rather one of them, with the virus is that it's invisible and not easy to quantify, understand or predict.
During WWII people banded together because they could see and understand a common enemy. It made sense, it was obvious what they wanted and how they were going to get it. Sticking together made sense.
At the moment governments across all ideological boundaries are banding together in their insiatsnce that this is really serious, but the people they govern don't quite understand it so many aren't supporting them.
They cannot see the enemy and they flat our don't understand the science, so they are rebelling.
That isn't to suggest that scientists fully understand the science because it's very early, just that those studying it are aware of the potential implications if we bat on regardless.
To think this is a conspiracy is anywhere on the spectrum of flat out moronic to being paranoid, to simply not understanding how many people can keep a secret.
Fauci said right at the beginning of this  (and I paraphrase) that he's rather be considered a fraud for over exaggerating and nothing happens, than negligent because he said nothing.
Pretty much every government and serious scientist on the face of the planet is saying 'seriously, we could have a huge problem on our hands here and it may get a lot worse' but still some people with zero scientific background and with no relevant information that contracdicts that other than a hunch or two are effectively saying....

 

Part of me wished I could type faster and more accurately, but then part of me thinks that would just give you more to ignore.
Do politicians deny smoking and drinking are unhealthy because they may partake in either, or both.
Is Boris saying " there's nothing unhealthy about being fat, look at me, I'm fat and I'm not dead'?
Do you know anybody terrified of sugar even though it kills millions of people every year?
This isn't a case of being terrified, this is a case of putting public health first.
I can't stand Johnson and I can see he is in a no-win situation with half his Party hating him. So I kinda think he maybe realises we're in a hole here.
I dread to think what the right would be saying of we had a labour PM. The country would be in civil war.

Good grief, I've drifted into a junior school debating competition. 

There are people in this thread who think we should all get doubled jabbed, boosted and wear masks in public.
If we're wrong  and it's not necessary, you have a slightly achy arm and a you have to enunciate more clearly when talking in a public space.
If those of you that think it's unnecessary are wrong, hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people die (potentially you) and this drags on forever.
This is such a ridiculous argument to me.
Get vaccinated, wear a mask and then if this is all a waste of time, mock the duck out of us afterwards for you being slightly inconvenienced as opposed to being dead.

There are people in this thread who think we should all get doubled jabbed, boosted and wear masks in public.
If we're wrong  and it's not necessary, you have a slightly achy arm and a you have to enunciate more clearly when talking in a public space.
If those of you that think it's unnecessary are wrong, hundreds or thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people die (potentially you) and this drags on forever.
This is such a ridiculous argument to me.
Get vaccinated, wear a mask and then if this is all a waste of time, mock the duck out of us afterwards for you being slightly inconvenienced as opposed to being dead.