What's the alternative plan?

[sage]

I'd of kept Shackell unless he requested to leave.

Sell Savies, never of bought Tyson...... Sell Tyson, keep Bailey, flog Bavies instead.

Bavies 250k?

Savies 500k?

Buy a striker. Next priority a CM who's brave.

Flog Doyle and Croft and Deeney for owt.

Moan in the press how we need to invest to improve. No LB cover, not enough CBs.

Never play 442 again without good wingers and a striker who's good in the air.

Oh, and tell moaners on message boards to stop second guessing me cus I'm calling the shots.

Have sex with Tudgays missus

So with £750k minus the £150k you need for for Jacobs on top of Maguire money you will get a CF and a CM. Which ones?

[Martyn]

So imagine you're NC and after finishing 12th, you are told at best, you need to keep wages at the current level and you can only spend what you raise in sales. Add to that Barker is out for a year and Davies won't sign a new contract for personal reasons.

What would you do differently?

I'm wondering (and hoping) if your post is making some of our dipshit fans have a little think.

[BondJovi]

I'm wondering (and hoping) if your post is making some of our dipshit fans have a little think.

How lordly of you to think that someone who disagrees with what you think is a dipshit. I for one welcome this thread, not to exhume the foolish but to help understand the decision. One can understand without agreeing.

[barnetram]

If you are Nigel you should do what any manager of stature and courage would do. You should say that unless the board loosens the purse strings a bit you will walk away. I dont for one moment think he will because he is in his comfort zone. He earns decent wages, works with his friends around him and lives where he was born and bred. He is confident that the board wont sack him so he just sits back and takes it.Its this apathy which is stifling our club.

[AucklandRam]

If I were Cloughie I'd be banging on the door for more cash. Letting them know that it's impossible to get out of this league or even improve if we lose our best players without replacing them.

As we all know, the chances of that happening are very low.

Therefore, the only thing Cloughie can do is get the best out of his squad as he can and, hope the young players improve again.

Not gonna happen though :/

Prediction. Clough out by winter.

[Mr Tibbs]

Realistically, what do you think the boards expectations are with Clough?

Andy A says promotion is a possibility but I don't for one second believe that Clough even has a target for the top 6.

Cloughs in a comfort zone purely because the expectations from those above him are easily achievable.

[GboroRam]

People need to stop believing the sales pitch. I don't think for one second that anyone at the club seriously expects promotion. It's a possibility, of course - any team has a chance. But what is said to keep morale up amongst fans won't be the target for the season, I'm fairly sure.

[Rampant Rob]

If I were Cloughie I'd be banging on the door for more cash. Letting them know that it's impossible to get out of this league or even improve if we lose our best players without replacing them.

As we all know, the chances of that happening are very low.

Therefore, the only thing Cloughie can do is get the best out of his squad as he can and, hope the young players improve again.

Not gonna happen though :/

Prediction. Clough out by winter.

How do we know Clough is not asking for money from the board. You are only guessing. Not every manager is like Billy airing his dirty laundry in public.

[sage]

How lordly of you to think that someone who disagrees with what you think is a dipshit. I for one welcome this thread, not to exhume the foolish but to help understand the decision. One can understand without agreeing.

So, what are your alternatives?

[sage]

I'm wondering (and hoping) if your post is making some of our dipshit fans have a little think.

I was hoping to see if any of the posters who have been crucifying Clough actually had any credible alternatives. So far we have 9 resignations and 1 buy a CF and a CM better than what we have with £750k.

[Bris Vegas]

If you are Nigel you should do what any manager of stature and courage would do. You should say that unless the board loosens the purse strings a bit you will walk away. I dont for one moment think he will because he is in his comfort zone. He earns decent wages, works with his friends around him and lives where he was born and bred. He is confident that the board wont sack him so he just sits back and takes it.Its this apathy which is stifling our club.

I agree entirely with that.. Clough won't find a better job than Derby, he will never have the comforts of the job he currently has elsewhere, and frankly, he hasn't done anything worthy to be considered for a better job..

Clough has it all here, his life is based around Derbyshire.. He knows the club, the area, the fans, the expectations and everything inside out.. It's his home afterall.. He won't do anything whatsoever to jeapodise his position as Derby County manager.. He would stay here for the next 30 years, in the NPC or in League 1 and he won't complain a jot.... One would say he lacks ambition, another would say he's completely content in his job and doesn't feel the need to get a job elsewhere (he also knows he'll never get a better job).. There's nothing wrong with that..

Clough is to Derby what Gradi is to Crewe..

[sage]

I agree entirely with that.. Clough won't find a better job than Derby, he will never have the comforts of the job he currently has elsewhere, and frankly, he hasn't done anything worthy to be considered for a better job..

Clough has it all here, his life is based around Derbyshire.. He knows the club, the area, the fans, the expectations and everything inside out.. It's his home afterall.. He won't do anything whatsoever to jeapodise his position as Derby County manager.. He would stay here for the next 30 years, in the NPC or in League 1 and he won't complain a jot.... One would say he lacks ambition, another would say he's completely content in his job and doesn't feel the need to get a job elsewhere (he also knows he'll never get a better job).. There's nothing wrong with that..

Clough is to Derby what Gradi is to Crewe..

So you would resign in his position?

[Bris Vegas]

So you would resign in his position?

You mean if I took over from the managerial position today? Would I immediately resign? No I wouldn't, with a few youngsters coming through and a few overrated players who could probably fetch abit of cash (Bryson and Ward) I'd sell them and focus on bringing in players from overseas..

But this is all hypothetical as I would never have signed the players Clough has in the first place.. You know me Sage, triers just don't do it for me..

[mozza]

So you would resign in his position?

be buggered if I would..

[AucklandRam]

How do we know Clough is not asking for money from the board. You are only guessing. Not every manager is like Billy airing his dirty laundry in public.

He might well be, but he aint gonna get anything substantial. That's what I'm getting at. He won't be given the funds needed to take the club forward.

[sage]

You mean if I took over from the managerial position today? Would I immediately resign? No I wouldn't, with a few youngsters coming through and a few overrated players who could probably fetch abit of cash (Bryson and Ward) I'd sell them and focus on bringing in players from overseas..

But this is all hypothetical as I would never have signed the players Clough has in the first place.. You know me Sage, triers just don't do it for me..

Ok. (this is pre-shackell, maguire and jacobs transfers) Who would you sell, for how much and who would you buy?

[Bris Vegas]

So before Shacks, Jacobs and Maguire I have how much to spend? And I need to keep the wages roughly the same or even decrease again?

I'd most certainly keep Maguire.. I wouldn't have bought Jacobs, as realistically I wouldn't play 4-4-2 so there would be no need to buy an out and out left-winger.. How much was Jacobs bought for? And Maguire sold for? Let's say Jacobs was bought for $450k and Maguire sold for $250k = $200k which I'd have left..

Now, being a 4-3-3 which could be adapted to 4-2-3-1 I'd need 3 CMs just for the starting line-up.. We have Bryson, Hughes, Hendrick, Bailey, Addison, Ben Davies who could all realistically play there.. I'd cash in on B.Davies and Bryson ($750k in total?) leaving Bailey, Addison, Hendrick and Hughes (all babies).. I'd now go out and get a CM.. I naturally like Spanish players, I feel they have great technique and are comfortable on the ball..I'd probably take advantage of the likes of Almeria, Cordoba and Numancia not winning promotion and having financial difficulties (or so I am led to believe).. I'd try and get two..

As for uptop (the 3 positions) who do we have.. Ward, Robinson, Ball, Tyson, Davies, Croft, Bennett, Doyle, Maguire.. Well I'd keep Tyson, despite being a poor football at least he offers cover for 3 positions and can rotate.. (I'd probably sell after a year due to expected high wages).. Ward is 50/50.. Again whilst overrated, at least he offers cover for both sides.. Ball I'd sell (150k?) Savies is going (250k?) Croft would be gone/loaned out (save 50k?) I'd cash in on Theo (550k?).. That leaves me Tyson, Ward, Bennett, Maguire, Doyle.. (I realistically would need 2 more players uptop with around 650k? A striker and wide winger/forward)..

Defence.. I'd keep them all.. I'd probably sign a youth at leftback..

As for expectations.. I'd tell the club they overachieved last season and promotion this season is unrealisic.. I'd target better progressive football and faster movement in the final 3rd as the season goes on.. With the value of our youngsters increasing as time goes on.. I'd eventually cash in on one.. Rather than targetting a league position and being short-sighted I'd target an improvement in playing style and the movement of players.. Results will go hand in hand with dominant performances.. I'd see myself very similar to Gus Poyet, although I wouldn't waste $3mill on a striker with his best years behind him.

[sage]

So before Shacks, Jacobs and Maguire I have how much to spend? And I need to keep the wages roughly the same or even decrease again?

I'd most certainly keep Maguire.. I wouldn't have bought Jacobs, as realistically I wouldn't play 4-4-2 so there would be no need to buy an out and out left-winger.. How much was Jacobs bought for? And Maguire sold for? Let's say Jacobs was bought for $450k and Maguire sold for $250k = $200k which I'd have left..

Now, being a 4-3-3 which could be adapted to 4-2-3-1 I'd need 3 CMs just for the starting line-up.. We have Bryson, Hughes, Hendrick, Bailey, Addison, Ben Davies who could all realistically play there.. I'd cash in on B.Davies and Bryson ($750k in total?) leaving Bailey, Addison, Hendrick and Hughes (all babies).. I'd now go out and get a CM.. I naturally like Spanish players, I feel they have great technique and are comfortable on the ball..I'd probably take advantage of the likes of Almeria, Cordoba and Numancia not winning promotion and having financial difficulties (or so I am led to believe).. I'd try and get two..

As for uptop (the 3 positions) who do we have.. Ward, Robinson, Ball, Tyson, Davies, Croft, Bennett, Doyle, Maguire.. Well I'd keep Tyson, despite being a poor football at least he offers cover for 3 positions and can rotate.. (I'd probably sell after a year due to expected high wages).. Ward is 50/50.. Again whilst overrated, at least he offers cover for both sides.. Ball I'd sell (150k?) Savies is going (250k?) Croft would be gone/loaned out (save 50k?) I'd cash in on Theo (550k?).. That leaves me Tyson, Ward, Bennett, Maguire, Doyle.. (I realistically would need 2 more players uptop with around 650k? A striker and wide winger/forward)..

Defence.. I'd keep them all.. I'd probably sign a youth at leftback..

As for expectations.. I'd tell the club they overachieved last season and promotion this season is unrealisic.. I'd target better progressive football and faster movement in the final 3rd as the season goes on.. With the value of our youngsters increasing as time goes on.. I'd eventually cash in on one.. Rather than targetting a league position and being short-sighted I'd target an improvement in playing style and the movement of players.. Results will go hand in hand with dominant performances.. I'd see myself very similar to Gus Poyet, although I wouldn't waste $3mill on a striker with his best years behind him.

So you think Tyson is better than Robinson, Addison and Bailey are better than Bryson, we could get 2 spanish cm's for £900k who you can't name and a cf and winger better than we have now and a young lb for £650k and you compare yourself to Gus Poyet. Interesting.

[Bris Vegas]

So you think Tyson is better than Robinson, Addison and Bailey are better than Bryson, we could get 2 spanish cm's for £900k who you can't name and a cf and winger better than we have now and a young lb for £650k and you compare yourself to Gus Poyet. Interesting.

I never said Tyson was better.. I said he was more versatile.. Theo would be wasted out wide and I don't see him as a decent lone striker.. Addison would be cover at best, given the options.. Bryson would be pointless in a midfield three, and with one based around possession and ball control, Bailey is better in that aspect.. I can easily name Spanish 2nd division players, do you want a list? Valladolid winning promotion might open up a possible Bueno loan option.. I have an account on their forum, I might give them an ask..

I wouldn't waste 650k on a young leftback.. And I didn't know that you wanted specific names? Gus Poyet has worked on over the past year and a half progressive football that gradually gets quicker in the final 3rd.. I like that model.. I also like how he's not afraid to buy from abroad..

[sage]

I never said Tyson was better.. I said he was more versatile.. Theo would be wasted out wide and I don't see him as a decent lone striker.. Addison would be cover at best, given the options.. Bryson would be pointless in a midfield three, and with one based around possession and ball control, Bailey is better in that aspect.. I can easily name Spanish 2nd division players, do you want a list? Valladolid winning promotion might open up a possible Bueno loan option.. I have an account on their forum, I might give them an ask..

I wouldn't waste 650k on a young leftback.. And I didn't know that you wanted specific names? Gus Poyet has worked on over the past year and a half progressive football that gradually gets quicker in the final 3rd.. I like that model.. I also like how he's not afraid to buy from abroad..

You said you'd buy a cf and winger and a young left back with £650k. Which cf, winger and lb would you buy for that?

Anyone can say i'd buy two good cm's. Who are they? How much would they cost? What are their wages? Would they come?

How do you know people would buy the players you want to sell? it's their choice.

Also, if you're NC you have to wait until a player is sold before you can buy. Finally, how would Addison be better in your fluid passing 3 man midfield than Bryson?