Tw@t on the phone in

[duncanjwitham]

The way I see it, if you get the basics right first - the workrate, the team spirit, the defending from the front, the organisation at the back etc - as confidence improves then the football will improve. What's far more difficult is to graft the basics onto a pretty football side like we had last season - which was amply proven, as when the pretty football dried up, there was nothing to fall back on.

[Ambitious]

The way I see it, if you get the basics right first - the workrate, the team spirit, the defending from the front, the organisation at the back etc - as confidence improves then the football will improve. What's far more difficult is to graft the basics onto a pretty football side like we had last season - which was amply proven, as when the pretty football dried up, there was nothing to fall back on.

http://irenicon.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/wrong-answer

Exactly.

[Alph]

The way I see it, if you get the basics right first - the workrate, the team spirit, the defending from the front, the organisation at the back etc - as confidence improves then the football will improve. What's far more difficult is to graft the basics onto a pretty football side like we had last season - which was amply proven, as when the pretty football dried up, there was nothing to fall back on.

Agree with you.

I hope the pretty side comes too. It didn't with Billy and our grinding out results tactic was hopelessly outclassed in the Premiership.

That's not a moan btw. I'm well chuffed to be joint top. And the performance v Doncaster was almost perfect. No decent chances to Donny and we scored 3.

With footballers in the team. Brayford, Bailey, Hendrick and Bryson i'm thinking and hoping it's only a matter of time. Keep grinding the results Derby. Then when we gel and develop relationships on the pitch i hope we can have a team that can push towards the Premiership.

[ramsbottom]

I don't think we'll see th pretty triangle stuff as much this season anyway. Last season we had no pace what so ever up the top so we had to work the ball to the edge of the oppostions box in order to create chances whereas this year we can go more direct more often to get behind a teams back four instead of playing in front of them. Yes we'd all love to play like Barcelona but even in the purple patch last season some of the build up play was too ponderous and came to a dead end because we couldn't work the ball quickly enough...

Maybe NLN really isn't as dumb tactically as a lot of us make out...

[Duracell]

Agree with you.

I hope the pretty side comes too. It didn't with Billy and our grinding out results tactic was hopelessly outclassed in the Premiership.

That's not a moan btw. I'm well chuffed to be joint top. And the performance v Doncaster was almost perfect. No decent chances to Donny and we scored 3.

With footballers in the team. Brayford, Bailey, Hendrick and Bryson i'm thinking and hoping it's only a matter of time. Keep grinding the results Derby. Then when we gel and develop relationships on the pitch i hope we can have a team that can push towards the Premiership.

Clough seemed keen to mention the lack of champagne footie in his interview in fact. He wasn't even asked on our style of play before acknowledging we aren't "playing quite as well as 12 months ago", and it sort of came across as "bare with us on the front, that will come" in tone.

I actually think this side is much more capable and littered with far more talent than our 06/07 side. In fact, that team was pretty poor anyway. Our left side was beyond poor with players like Camara, McEveley and Currie as well as only one (very) decent centre forward. Only on a handful occasions did we look better than our opponents, let alone out-class them, and in the second half of the season in particular we put in some pretty poor performances. The same team broke all sorts of records the following season...

What I'm trying to say is that this team is better than Billy Davies' side in terms of talent. You can finish 3rd in this league with an incomplete squad. So we should be well capable of playing some nice football, especially with some of the proper footballers you mention Alpha like Bailey and Bryson (by the sounds of things, I haven't actually seen us play yet). The signs are good. We know we're not the perfect team, but you don't need to be to get out of this league.

Clough has never seemed to delighted with his team as he did on Saturday and it feels different this time. It sounds like there's room for improvement and it sounds like we aim to improve. And that's despite our best start for 100 years.

And people are complaining? Only Derby County.

[Duracell]

I don't think we'll see th pretty triangle stuff as much this season anyway. Last season we had no pace what so ever up the top so we had to work the ball to the edge of the oppostions box in order to create chances whereas this year we can go more direct more often to get behind a teams back four instead of playing in front of them. Yes we'd all love to play like Barcelona but even in the purple patch last season some of the build up play was too ponderous and came to a dead end because we couldn't work the ball quickly enough...

Maybe NLN really isn't as dumb tactically as a lot of us make out...

Agreed. To make that kind of football work properly, you need 11 ball-playing players. That costs a lot of money if you're going to sign those players permanently, or you're going to rely on a lot of loans. I think Nigel realised that our style wasn't sustainable on our budget last season - it relied heavily on loan players on high wages and some players didn't fit in to the system properly anyway (Bywater, Moxey, Savage, Addison). We got found out when we played the league's better teams who could exploit our weaknesses.

Very few teams pass there way out of this league anyway, only the West Broms who come down with Premier League squads can really do it. If you want to get promoted, you need a team that works hard, do the basics right, and score more goals than the opposition. In terms of entertainment, a few players might have an eye for q pass and you might get a couple of youngsters on loan from above who will dazzle. But if you want football like Barcelona or United, you need to get real - this is England's second tier, not the top flight. The players who can knock the ball about effortlessly don't ply their trade in our league.

[Leeds Ram]

this is where you set apart the wheat from the chaff in terms of moaners, i am not moaning because one can only be positive. We have a number of players out and are winning games when we aren't playing particularly well which is great, whoever is moaning now needs to hand in their season ticket because they will never ever be happy. I am looking forward to Burnley and even if we don't win or lose i won't mind because i can see real light at the end of the tunnel now. Also is it me or does the club on match days have a different feel? people to me do seem more optimistic.

[PBW Ram]

Its a young team, with a bit of skill and pace and plenty of old fashioned graft, work ethic, team spirit and camaradie.

the rest of your post is cracking and pretty spot on, as per usual Uttox.

This bolded bit confused me though.

I didn't realise we'd signed Danny?? ;-)

[PBW Ram]

this is where you set apart the wheat from the chaff in terms of moaners, i am not moaning because one can only be positive. We have a number of players out and are winning games when we aren't playing particularly well which is great, whoever is moaning now needs to hand in their season ticket because they will never ever be happy. I am looking forward to Burnley and even if we don't win or lose i won't mind because i can see real light at the end of the tunnel now. Also is it me or does the club on match days have a different feel? people to me do seem more optimistic.

Nice post Young Ram.

Well played.

[BOB BIGGS]

It wasn't me, Gboro Was on holidays for the last couple of weeks.

I've seen all our games this season though and happy with results so far.

The only annoying thing is i have no confidence in this team before the next match... unlike i had in BD's team.

Oddly, I had confidence in BD's team for RESULTS too. Always looked like we might pinch the points whatever kind of performance we produced. Shame he always wanted to be at Preston while he was with us. He might have been able to do a half decent job if he'd put his mind to it. As it was....Forest's gain was our loss:)

[Guest]

Oddly, I had confidence in BD's team for RESULTS too. Always looked like we might pinch the points whatever kind of performance we produced. Shame he always wanted to be at Preston while he was with us. He might have been able to do a half decent job if he'd put his mind to it. As it was....Forest's gain was our loss

I know I am going to regret asking.....but why was it ?

[Derby_Dave]

I know I am going to regret asking.....but why was it ?

Good question. Maybe two failed playoff attempts count more than one successful one.

[duncanjwitham]

Agreed. To make that kind of football work properly, you need 11 ball-playing players. That costs a lot of money if you're going to sign those players permanently, or you're going to rely on a lot of loans.

I actually don't think that's the case. If you look at teams like Swansea, or Doncaster before their injury crisis, they play good football but they don't have teams full of superstars. What they have is 11 men who are all comfortable on the ball. They don't need to be Commons/Bueno types who can do the tricks and flicks and win a game out of nowhere, but they need to be able to control a ball and pass it 5 yards to a team mate on a consistent basis. Over the past few seasons, we've had far too many players that couldn't do this.

Other than maybe Tyson and Robinson (who've clearly been signed purely for pace, which is fine) pretty much all of our new signings look decent on the ball. Shackell can play out from the back, Fielding is comfortable with the ball, Maguire, Bryson and Ward look decent technical players aswell. Add that to the likes of Bailey, Brayford, Cywka, Davies(x2), Hendrick and we're not far off a team of decent ball-players. Maybe we won't play the champagne football of last season, but high-tempo pass and move football (which we're more than capable of playing with the squad we have) can be very attractive to watch. It'll just take time for the confidence to grow, the unfit/injured players to get match fit and the new lads to settle in.

And if we can take the solidity on throughout the season, and then maybe add a real quality player or two next season - a Scott Sinclair, a Billy Sharp etc (i.e. spend £2m+ on 2 good players, not 9 decent ones like this season) then we're looking very strong.

[Duracell]

I actually don't think that's the case. If you look at teams like Swansea, or Doncaster before their injury crisis, they play good football but they don't have teams full of superstars. What they have is 11 men who are all comfortable on the ball. They don't need to be Commons/Bueno types who can do the tricks and flicks and win a game out of nowhere, but they need to be able to control a ball and pass it 5 yards to a team mate on a consistent basis. Over the past few seasons, we've had far too many players that couldn't do this.

Other than maybe Tyson and Robinson (who've clearly been signed purely for pace, which is fine) pretty much all of our new signings look decent on the ball. Shackell can play out from the back, Fielding is comfortable with the ball, Maguire, Bryson and Ward look decent technical players aswell. Add that to the likes of Bailey, Brayford, Cywka, Davies(x2), Hendrick and we're not far off a team of decent ball-players. Maybe we won't play the champagne football of last season, but high-tempo pass and move football (which we're more than capable of playing with the squad we have) can be very attractive to watch. It'll just take time for the confidence to grow, the unfit/injured players to get match fit and the new lads to settle in.

And if we can take the solidity on throughout the season, and then maybe add a real quality player or two next season - a Scott Sinclair, a Billy Sharp etc (i.e. spend £2m+ on 2 good players, not 9 decent ones like this season) then we're looking very strong.

But that was kinda my point anyway, I'm not sure how much we disagree. Doncaster and Swansea look like second tier sides playing neat football, but I'd still rather see Brazil or Barcelona though! But I stand by my point that perhaps it's not best to try and play like Brazil when you're in our position and just focus on the basics instead. Technical ability is still important and you want to see some eye-catching football, yes, but the Swansea had much more in their locker than just their passing football and Doncaster don't - and they're bottom. You just can't aim for that sort of football for the whole season, especially not on the wintered, uneven playing surfaces of mid-season. Swansea sometimes just had to play rough and grind out 0-0 results, because the reality was that they weren't always good enough to pull off their style when agaisnt good sides or on bad pitches - two years ago they reached the playoffs despite scoring less than a goal a game. That's the Championship, and the teams that can play beautiful football every single game are in the Champions League, not the second tier of English football.

We have a team capable of playing champagne football, I agree, but it's a team that can win and win well by plain old hard graft. And there's a Plan B. It's what we need, and it's what we got.

[ramsbottom]

I actually thought the second goal on Saturday was really good football. Admittedly is wasn't one touch, pass_pass_pass type stuff but it was quick incisive and controlled. I could quite happily see play/goals like that all season...

[needles]

I actually thought the second goal on Saturday was really good football. Admittedly is wasn't one touch, pass_pass_pass type stuff but it was quick incisive and controlled. I could quite happily see play/goals like that all season...

The second goal was a fantastic cross and a good header, but their full back fell over to be fair. Bit of a gift for Ben Davies to get in the crossing position.

Third one was the pick.

[Bris Vegas]

Theres a difference between moaning and being realistic.. I've been called out for moaning yet I haven't said anything different to what NC has said..

Our performances improved greatly in the Blackpool/Donny matches, because frankly, they had to, as we were woeful against Watford.. You can be woeful and still win, but just as I said during BDs season, we can't go on like this forever, we'll soon get foiund out..

Our last 2 performances have been to a decent standard.. We've not been playing flowing football but at least we've tried to keep the ball, I personally think the introduction of Hendrick and having 2 ballplaying CMs are the main reasons for this..

Also, some of us look at football differently.. For some of us, and I'm probably in the minority, but results isn't the be all and end all for me.. We're Derby County, we're not going to win the PL, so I'd rather stay here and play entertaining football than finish say 14th in the PL every season playing like f*ckin Blackburn.

Football to me is more than just sticking a ball accross the white line and into the net, and winning at any cost. Football to me is an art..

To quote - Socrates - "To win is not the most important thing, football is an art and should be showing creativity," he said.

"If [painters] Vincent van Gogh and Edgar Degas had known when they were doing their work the level of recognition that they were going to have, they would not have done them the same. You have to enjoy doing the art and not think 'will I win?'".

Maybe it's my region, but I'm not alone in thinking this way.. And I personally believe if England had this attitude (style and passion over results) then we'd start to develop talent worthy of players like Socrates.. However it would never happen, as 95% of the English don't follow football this way.

[RamNut]

moving ward wide helped too