students dilemma

[Obi1Kenobi0]

I fully support the students who want to protest peacefully. The ilk who are breaking stuff and generally acting like buffons seem to be either teen football factory wannabees or professional swampy protestors. Of course they are the ones who grab the headlines.

Clegg and Co completely miss the point of the anger directed towards their volte-face. HE financing is as much a ideological debate as it is a financial one. Both Cable and Clegg have lost all credibility on the matter as the argument of these measures being progressive is defunct. The government are merely asking students to cover the shortfall in the reduction of funding. Teaching and research will not improve in universities but merely stagnate. Students may not be asked to pay upfront but with students expected to come out with £30k plus debt how the hell is the taxpayer going to get this money back?

The rot was set when Labour pushed for widening participation. While it sounds good it ended up with students as thick as pig **** entering HE on joke degrees. All subsidised by the taxpayer.

I agree that students should cough up and contribute but only at levels where these loans can be paid back. £3k a year is about right. What we need to do as others have mentioned is question what degrees should be subsidised and which should not. There are also a lot of mediocre uni's out there that purely exist to put bums on seats.

University should be elitist in terms of attracting the most intelligent to its ranks. Not putting off kids from poorer backgrounds by raising fees and chucking them a few grand in grants.

Other countries place an emphasis on higher technical apprenticeships and vocational qualifications. But since successive governments have tinkered with new qualifications like the VGCSE, Diplomas, GNVQs, AVCEs etc then employers, students and uni's have not trusted them maintaining the vocational/academic divide that still exists.

[Obi1Kenobi0]

my opinion is those involved in trouble should be arrested and be dealt with to the full extent of the law, however I believe it is a good thing that such numbers are protesting and peacefully. After this rise we will ahve the highest student fees in the developed world, the governemnt are cutting higher education spending by 80% there not just cutting it they are taking an axe and hacking off the potential future, then they claim because of this universities will do better with less money? The student fee's are going to cover the gap in spending according to the condem governemnt but how are they if the fees are being paid off slowly and with ease, they take 9% of your annual earnings when you earn 21,000 or more. It's a disgrace and if they do it the Liberal Democrats will be no more.

Exactly a good point. But as we had with New Labour why should the coalition worry about it as it will be someone elses problem in 20 years time when vast majority of these loans have to be written off.

[Dangerous]

You can get a degree in opening a can of beans nowadays.Any sympathy I had has long gone.

Im amazed that people are suprised that Clegg has changed his policy.He started the election campaign as the third favourite,he ends it as second in command.Do the public really think he was going to stand up to his new best mate? He is a politician for gods sake!! They tell lies to feather their own nests.

Clegg has prostituted his self and his party to get into bed with the tories.In the short term he has done well for himself but long term he has damaged the Lib Dems massively and their members will flock to Labour.

The true hypocrisy of these stupid protests is that some of the protesters will one day be politicians.

[Perky1106]

A degree is worth a lot, and should cost a lot. Because you are getting a lot, in terms of resources, tuition and facilities and you can get a job that pays it all back within a short amount of time.

My brother is in his mid twenties and has paid it all off now. But it won't be as easy as that for some.

If it's a degree you want to do for a job you want to have and enjoy, £9k p/a is still a small amount of money to pay. You will get top quality education in England, a great experience where you will meet new people and become more self reliant and if you work hard you will be rewarded with a well paying job that pays the big debts off in no time.

Mickey mouse degrees need to be filtered out and replaced with more practical and vocational options.

[Boycie]

Mickey Mouse degree's?

I disney know they did em?:confused:

*slowly removes coat from hook*

[Obi1Kenobi0]

A degree is worth a lot, and should cost a lot. Because you are getting a lot, in terms of resources, tuition and facilities and you can get a job that pays it all back within a short amount of time.

My brother is in his mid twenties and has paid it all off now. But it won't be as easy as that for some.

If it's a degree you want to do for a job you want to have and enjoy, £9k p/a is still a small amount of money to pay. You will get top quality education in England, a great experience where you will meet new people and become more self reliant and if you work hard you will be rewarded with a well paying job that pays the big debts off in no time.

Mickey mouse degrees need to be filtered out and replaced with more practical and vocational options.

To be honest the only thing I agree with is your last sentence, the rest is painfully naive I'm afraid. So as hundreds of thousands of students get degrees following the sustained widening participation agenda does that still make a degree worth a lot? There is still mass unemployment among graduates, hence the recent half baked intern scheme. Many graduates are forced to take low paid jobs unrelated to their degree.

If your brother is in his mid-twenties he would have paid significantly less than what they are now proposing. Let me do some math for you. Under the proposed system graduates would pay 9% of what they earn over 21K. Let's say a graduate starts earning 50k a year from the off a figure I'm sure you will agree is unlikely. Each year they would pay back £2610. If they pay the proposed 9k fees plus any student loans for living we are taking an easy £30-35k of debt. Now add on the proposed inflationary costs to the loan year on year. That's an easy 15 years. Indeed the Browne report states they predict only 40% of students will pay off the upfront costs!

Still think students will pay it off in no time? Still think 9k is good value when students are sitting in lecture halls with a hundred others, no 1:1 time?

[Ambitious]

I'm not a student, however I don't see how putting people in debt that essentially cannot pay debt for at least 3-5 years is going to do.

my first thought is that it's going to put people off going to university and in turn creates the line at the dole office much bigger.

then with more and more people looking for 'unskilled' work because they basically cannot afford the fee's of learning a skill, it means companies that need skilled workers can't get the work force because they're not enough skilled people around, also job losses at universities are bound to happen if students aren't willing to pay.

and then it's actually the bank who're about as stable as a 3 legged donkey are paying for these university fees in the first instance, for me this is the wrong way to go about it.

however the majority of people work, and if this means it doesn't push taxes up, then no-one is bothered what students have to endure. I'm in a lucky situation, because if I ever decide to do my degree/phd then I get it all paid for me, but there are a lot of people out there which don't get that opportunity!

[Kris Marina]

I fully support the students who want to protest peacefully. The ilk who are breaking stuff and generally acting like buffons seem to be either teen football factory wannabees or professional swampy protestors. Of course they are the ones who grab the headlines.

You'll not get any football lads at these protests mate

[Obi1Kenobi0]

You'll not get any football lads at these protests mate

Not proper ones no. I mean the ones who turn up for a game and then spend the entire match watching the away end!!

[uttoxram75]

Mickey Mouse degree's?

I disney know they did em?:confused:

*slowly removes coat from hook*

owzat!

Laughed my fckin arseoff.

[Kris Marina]

Not proper ones no. I mean the ones who turn up for a game and then spend the entire match watching the away end!!

Well, to put it another way, you wont get any so-called 'football hooligans' at these protests.

[Dangerous]

Well done students!! yet again they have caused disruption, mayhem and more expense to be laid at the foot of the taxpayer.

The vote has been lost and to be honest im pleased.Violent disorder cannot be seen to be productive.And a free education is not a right.

[Boycie]

owzat!

Laughed my fckin arseoff.

I'm here all week, Try the super noodles.

[CumbrianRam]

http://twitpic.com/3eeg74

Words fail me.

Also why set fire to a Christmas Tree?

[Boycie]

They don't need a free education, they need educating into who that statue is. Feckwits.

[CumbrianRam]

Apparently Prince Charles and Camilla's car is under attack from the protesters now.

[Boycie]

There'll be someone hurt soon, I mean a kid protesting. The police will be twitching and a mistake could happen, especially if the royal family are involved.

[kincardine]

idiot students wont be voting lib dem again eh:D . most the people it showed on telly were about late 30s i mean at that age u should have a bloody job !

[MrsRam]

I wonder how much todays protests will cost us, the taxpayer.

I mean Charles and Camilla need a new car for starters.

The bloke that chose that route for them, will have his head on a pike in't'mornin. :eek:

[Dangerous]

only 22 arrests. im amazed,it should be 522.