students dilemma

[MrsRam]

http://twitpic.com/3eeqcz

*Shakes head and fist*

[Dangerous]

absolute scum.,I hope whoever is doing that is hunted down and shamed/shot.

[ladyram]

What sympathy people had for the students is making a fast exit now.

That picture with the idiot on the memorial is beyond contempt and he is a disgrace to this country. His parents must be very proud.

The idiots who chucked paint on the car should be charged with criminal damage and given the bill for it. It will cost more than any £9k to put that right.

A peaceful demonstration is one thing but all this stuff is counter-productive but Mrsram is right, it will be upto us, the taxpayers to pay for the damage.

A lot of students (and I know there are some sensible ones who do possess intelligence) won't give a toss about their actions.

I've just been told I have to take a 2% pay cut - but you certainly won't see me hanging off a war memorial, chucking paint or graffitying stuff.

It's shocking and disgraceful. Some students need to grow another brain cell to keep the other one company.

[Wilko]

Well done students!! yet again they have caused disruption, mayhem and more expense to be laid at the foot of the taxpayer.

The vote has been lost and to be honest im pleased.Violent disorder cannot be seen to be productive.And a free education is not a right.

Nowt like tarring us all with the same brush, eh mate?

Tens of thousands demonstrated peacefully but unfortunately, a few hundred d*ckheads decided to make a point of using force. No excuse for them, they are ****** of the highest order and should be kicked out of university.

But not ALL students are like that. 99% demonstrated peacefully yesterday. A shame that a few hundred utter, utter d*ckheads can lead to the shameful scenes seen yesterday

[dcfcdavecov]

Bit rich coming from a postman, no?

You lot would do anything for a strike and disruption.

Plus you don't post in the snow, don't post if you have a dog, don't post if you like the look of the package, don't post if the union says so, don't post AND shut the feckin gate, don't post anything good......

Sweeping statements, ya got to love em.

[MrsRam]

I know it's off topic - but we've had no post since last Tuesday :mad:

[froggg]

http://twitpic.com/3eeqcz

*Shakes head and fist*

what a tosser:mad:

[ladyram]

Bit rich coming from a postman, no?

You lot would do anything for a strike and disruption.

Plus you don't post in the snow, don't post if you have a dog, don't post if you like the look of the package, don't post if the union says so, don't post AND shut the feckin gate, don't post anything good......

Sweeping statements, ya got to love em.

Striking and disruption is a lot different to mindless vandalism, criminal damage and showing disrespect for our war dead. There's a world of difference there.

My postman delivers in all conditions and he closes the gate afterwards.

[dcfcdavecov]

Striking and disruption is a lot different to mindless vandalism, criminal damage and showing disrespect for our war dead. There's a world of difference there.

My postman delivers in all conditions and he closes the gate afterwards.

So does mine. Think you missed the point of the post.

[MrsRam]

Bit tough having to take a pay cut though ladyram -

[Leeds Ram]

i don't condone any violence whatsoever however some would feel it is the only way to be listened too and after this are they right? I am angry that the vote has gone through but i like to keep my protesting to a reaosned argument, by the way most of the peopel causing violence wasn't students but anarchist groups.

[davenportram]

What I want to know is have the students protesting actually read the proposals in detail and looked at the effect of them. If they had they would know

1) The poorest 25% of students will pay back less than they do now

2) They start paying back at £21k, which means for a lot of graduates they will never pay them back

3) They will be paying back 10% of earnings over £21k - when I was paying mine back I paid £90 a month on my loan whilst earning £21500 a year, under this new system I would be paying £50 a year. Yes it would take me longer to pay it off but in the amount paid per month would have little effect on my take home pay.

4) There are proposals for children who have had free school meals to get their first 2 years fees paid by the government so would only have 1 year loan to pay back.

5) Nothing is paid up front, as now, so university students will not have any money taken out of their pockets.

6) £9000 will not be charged by every university, and those that choose to have to justify it and provide extra Bursaries and finiancial assistnace to the poorer students.

7) There are variable interest rates charged on the loans, with those earning more paying higher interest.

The people that will lose out are

1) Those receiving EMA

2) Those whose family income is greater than 40,000 per annum as they no longer qualify for the higher grant or loan

In short this is more progressive than a graduate tax as those that go on to earn more pay more, and those that come from "disadvantaged" backgrounds pay less.

I ask again as I did on another thread, Why should Students not have to take some of the burden of the austerity measures like the rest of society? Tuition fees haven't risen for years despite the cost of education rises - Lecturer's salaries have risen, cost of heating and lighting has risen, inflation has put prices up in general. Isn't it about time that the fees charged for education rise too?

[Leeds Ram]

first of all many will be put off by the sheer scale of the debt, second only part time students pay owt up front anyway, 3 this is to cover the 80% teachign cut and the complete cut to arts, humanities and social science degreees. 4) even thoguht it is at a lower rate you still pay it back over 30 years, 5) most people who go to uni earn more than 21,000 a year and will apy it back.6) using the argument not everyone benfits from uni is like saying not everyone beenfits from the nhs. The base rate is now 6,000 at least, so people will be paying back double at least. These proposals kill the evry poorest help the richest and screw the people in the middle, they also add interest on your loan. The richest will pay it off in such time they wont pay interest tbh

[MrsRam]

Looks like no EMA for my daughter then - she leaves in May.:frown:

Thing is - we have to make cuts - there is no two ways about it. Everyone is suffering in one way or another. We'll just have to cut our cloth accordingly, like I'm having to do when shopping.

You cannot spend what you don't have, without getting into a financial mess.

[dcfcdavecov]

Looks like no EMA for my daughter then - she leaves in May.:frown:

Thing is - we have to make cuts - there is no two ways about it. Everyone is suffering in one way or another. We'll just have to cut our cloth accordingly, like I'm having to do when shopping.

You cannot spend what you don't have, without getting into a financial mess.

I think alot of students realise this, but it's the fact that they voted for Clegg, who shat in their face with the coalition, that really annoys them.

[Kris Marina]

first of all many will be put off by the sheer scale of the debt, second only part time students pay owt up front anyway, 3 this is to cover the 80% teachign cut and the complete cut to arts, humanities and social science degreees. 4) even thoguht it is at a lower rate you still pay it back over 30 years, 5) most people who go to uni earn more than 21,000 a year and will apy it back.6) using the argument not everyone benfits from uni is like saying not everyone beenfits from the nhs. The base rate is now 6,000 at least, so people will be paying back double at least. These proposals kill the evry poorest help the richest and screw the people in the middle, they also add interest on your loan. The richest will pay it off in such time they wont pay interest tbh

Early payment means more interest and good, I hope it does put people off so we see the eradication of token degrees like Events Management and Sociology

[dcfcdavecov]

It's easy for you to dismiss these "token" degrees, but in certain cities these students are keeping the economy churning over. Coventry, for example, has a population that reduces by 25% in the summer. Student cities need students more at the moment than ever before. They have to offer these degrees otherwise students would go elsewhere. These decisions are alot harder to make than alot of people realise.

[Leeds Ram]

Early payment means more interest and good, I hope it does put people off so we see the eradication of token degrees like Events Management and Sociology

sociology isn't a token degree at all, the fact is we will become less educated as a society because of this, is this good?

[Hartley Hare]

i don't condone any violence whatsoever however some would feel it is the only way to be listened too and after this are they right? I am angry that the vote has gone through but i like to keep my protesting to a reaosned argument, by the way most of the peopel causing violence wasn't students but anarchist groups.

Point 1 - No, of course they're not right. All of this violence hasn't got them what they wanted. Won't stop those intent on violent protest from carrying on tho', and if this cause runs out of steam then they'll find another one to hijack. They don't share the same agenda as the students. If they're going on a demo armed with paint cans and pool balls, then they're not intending to protest peacefully, are they?

Point 2 - Would be nice to hear the students groups distancing themselves from the violence, if that were the case. But by and large they're not, they're just happy to profit from the extra publicity it generates.

[Leeds Ram]

Point 1 - No, of course they're not right. All of this violence hasn't got them what they wanted. Won't stop those intent on violent protest from carrying on tho', and if this cause runs out of steam then they'll find another one to hijack. They don't share the same agenda as the students. If they're going on a demo armed with paint cans and pool balls, then they're not intending to protest peacefully, are they?

Point 2 - Would be nice to hear the students groups distancing themselves from the violence, if that were the case. But by and large they're not, they're just happy to profit from the extra publicity it generates.

You make some good points however i have heard students say that the violence was wrong only that stupid women on breakfast wouldn't, I think the vast majority went to protest peacefully and did, only a minor few caused problems, some might have gone to protest peacefully and ended up in a bit of trouble. Some went prepared with snooker balls but they were a very small minority, most went to protest and did.