Stive Pesley Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) https://webfoundation.org/2024/03/marking-the-webs-35th-birthday-an-open-letter/ Tim Berners Lee's open letter is a thought-provoking read Edited March 18 by Stive Pesley Alph, Highgate and Comrade 86 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 30 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: https://webfoundation.org/2024/03/marking-the-webs-35th-birthday-an-open-letter/ Tim Berners Lee's open letter is a thought-provoking read It felt like a watershed, the most important and significant advance in tech and comms I'd ever seen and would perhaps ever see, but as Berners Lee suggests, it does rather feel that rather than bring us together, it's had the opposite effect. Perhaps as I grow older, my cynicism grows in tandem, but it's hard to imagine a world where this trend is reversed. Ironically, perhaps the only way to improve things is through less engagement, not more and in so much, I'm left thinking that we have only ourselves to blame. Alph and Stive Pesley 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 No different than blaming football for football hooligans. The users are the ones setting the agenda. Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: https://webfoundation.org/2024/03/marking-the-webs-35th-birthday-an-open-letter/ Tim Berners Lee's open letter is a thought-provoking read Excellent piece. I just fear we've gone too far down the track to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 47 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: No different than blaming football for football hooligans. The users are the ones setting the agenda. I think that's too binary of an interpretation. Yes, the users are driving it, but the tech companies use an incredible amount of tricks that keep users glued to the screen for as long as possible. Not to mention, a lot of users are young people that may not quite understand the importance of living in the real world too. angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I think that's too binary of an interpretation. Yes, the users are driving it, but the tech companies use an incredible amount of tricks that keep users glued to the screen for as long as possible. Not to mention, a lot of users are young people that may not quite understand the importance of living in the real world too. This is the saddest thing to me. I fear we are the last "social" generation. Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 30 minutes ago, angieram said: This is the saddest thing to me. I fear we are the last "social" generation. It's looking like a real possibility. See here (ironically shared on Twitter): What's also concerning is the content that's being fed to kids and other vulnerable people. I defend TikTok for being more than just a "teenagers doing silly dances" app, but there is a darker side to it. Some of the livestreamed content is, at best, mindless, and the worst stuff is actively harmful. It's not moderated properly by TikTok; parents have no idea it exists; and kids won't know any better when they consume it. See here https://www.businessinsider.com/tiktok-live-all-night-clickbait-grifts-scams-sleep-streamers-twitch-2023-2 And this isn't just restricted to TikTok. Other dangerous content (see misogynistic, "alpha male" content on all platforms, particularly Twitter) is out there and accessible to kids without restriction. I think it would be completely wrong to ban kids from social media, but the tech platforms should be doing far more to moderate the content that's published. This is why the "free speech at all costs" approach is wrong imo. Stive Pesley and angieram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I think that's too binary of an interpretation. Yes, the users are driving it, but the tech companies use an incredible amount of tricks that keep users glued to the screen for as long as possible. Not to mention, a lot of users are young people that may not quite understand the importance of living in the real world too. What is 'the real world'? Of course it's a binary interpretation, but also it isn't. The software is programmed by people in tech companies. Used by people. How much 'nanny state' do you want? Perhaps if there was a better education system and more value given to education then Nanny wouldn't need to be so attentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What is 'the real world'? Of course it's a binary interpretation, but also it isn't. The software is programmed by people in tech companies. Used by people. How much 'nanny state' do you want? Perhaps if there was a better education system and more value given to education then Nanny wouldn't need to be so attentive. When you see how effective the tech companies are at hacking your attention, I'd argue you need more than just "better education". As a bit of a leftie, I have no problem with measured, balanced government intervention to tackle problems like this. angieram and Highgate 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 8 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: When you see how effective the tech companies are at hacking your attention, I'd argue you need more than just "better education". As a bit of a leftie, I have no problem with measured, balanced government intervention to tackle problems like this. I'm in favour of smarter people, maybe then there'd be less tech companies 'hacking your attention'. Which govt intervention do you think would work, send the programmers to Rwanda? 😉 Of course I see what you're saying but how could it be done, the tech companies are way smarter than Govt., well Western Govts anyway. This is the real world. DarkFruitsRam7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Of course I see what you're saying but how could it be done, the tech companies are way smarter than Govt., well Western Govts anyway. This is the real world. I can understand this viewpoint, though I do think it would be possible for a smart (probably young) leader to tackle the issue. Same goes for formulating a dynamic policy on AI. The problem is, I'm yet to see anyone close to power in the UK or US that has the knowledge, competence and vision to do it. We live in hope. A bit of moral courage from the tech companies would also help, but that's even more of a remote possibility. RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I can understand this viewpoint, though I do think it would be possible for a smart (probably young) leader to tackle the issue. Same goes for formulating a dynamic policy on AI. The problem is, I'm yet to see anyone close to power in the UK or US that has the knowledge, competence and vision to do it. We live in hope. A bit of moral courage from the tech companies would also help, but that's even more of a remote possibility. I like your optimism. I'd hope for, as I say, better education to help people appreciate that they can make a fairer, kinder world. However I doubt I'll even see this 'smart (young) leader' let alone one that can formulate a dynamic policy. MPs seem to be some of the least educated of the lot! And they're now valued at about the same level as teachers?! DarkFruitsRam7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I like your optimism. I'd hope for, as I say, better education to help people appreciate that they can make a fairer, kinder world. However I doubt I'll even see this 'smart (young) leader' let alone one that can formulate a dynamic policy. MPs seem to be some of the least educated of the lot! And they're now valued at about the same level as teachers?! I do share a lot of your pessimism around MPs. Far too many careerists and, on the Labour side (not to get too political), people that seem to care more about winning the election at all costs rather than actually standing for anything. I'm hoping that will change after the election, but I won't be banking on it. It also doesn't help that tech and AI policy isn't exactly an election winner, so there's not a huge incentive to tackle these issues. RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I do share a lot of your pessimism around MPs. Far too many careerists and, on the Labour side (not to get too political), people that seem to care more about winning the election at all costs rather than actually standing for anything. I'm hoping that will change after the election, but I won't be banking on it. It also doesn't help that tech and AI policy isn't exactly an election winner, so there's not a huge incentive to tackle these issues. Yes, I can still remember happily (and even optimistically) singing along to 'Things can only get better' after one election result. 🙂 Edited March 18 by RoyMac5 DarkFruitsRam7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Certainly the idea in TBL's letter of a "personal online data store" which the user has control over and not the tech companies would be a good start, and education from a young age is ultimately the only way to change the mindset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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