Good for Mel

[Ellafella]

6 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

You might be right. I might be right. We'll never know.

Anyway, bad recruitment of the managers has kept us from developing since Mac1. I certainly agree that Mel has supported the managers he has chosen and that's simply great. If the chosen managers did lie, then Mel had not done his homework very well then, had he?

I actually dare to criticise even more. IMO Mel shouldn't be so heavily involved in managerial recruiting. As a one of the most important acts the club can do, it should definitely be done by the top professionals. I'd compare the importance to the courtcase against EFL, one simply don't go there by himself.

I have to empasize that this has been the only issue I'd critisice Mel's ownership and I fully support him. IMO lack of vision and/or bad recruiting has been our stumbling block lately and that falls to Mel's responsibilities. Last two has been spot on and the vision is clearer now so maybe he has learned from the mistakes? 

Whatever it is, long may it continue.

The only thing I’d say is that Mel got stung when he let the Club be run by others who perhaps had a different agenda to Mel. Brave and over-trusting perhaps but once-bitten. . . 

[LeedsCityRam]

12 hours ago, Dimmu said:

To be honest, Mel wasn't really different before signing Lampard and then Cocu. I hope that that Cocu stays as Mel's recruiting hasn't been very impressive.  It has always seemed to lack direction and I for one has been critical of that as it's very basics of any organization. I hope you're correct and the current vision is here to stay.

I think that's fair comment & the strategic direction has probably changed in response to the frustration of short-termism not working. Clearly we were spending a lot of money back in 2015-17 & also going through plenty of managers. Then Mel decided to back the managers & of course, Rowett & Lampard then left when presented with better offers.

Off the back of that, he's probably decided that its dangerous to rely on one manager & therefore the ethos of the club has to remain unchanged with the first team coach hired to fit that mindset, not the other way around i.e. no way could we appoint a Neil Warnock or Mick McCarthy now. Personally, I think that's a very sensible way of running a football club - amongst our peer group of large Championship clubs, it marks us out as pretty unique and it should reap benefits in future years both from a financial & playing success point of view.

[DavesaRam]

7 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think that's fair comment & the strategic direction has probably changed in response to the frustration of short-termism not working. Clearly we were spending a lot of money back in 2015-17 & also going through plenty of managers. Then Mel decided to back the managers & of course, Rowett & Lampard then left when presented with better offers.

Off the back of that, he's probably decided that its dangerous to rely on one manager & therefore the ethos of the club has to remain unchanged with the first team coach hired to fit that mindset, not the other way around i.e. no way could we appoint a Neil Warnock or Mick McCarthy now. Personally, I think that's a very sensible way of running a football club - amongst our peer group of large Championship clubs, it marks us out as pretty unique and it should reap benefits in future years both from a financial & playing success point of view.

That, LeedsCityRam, is music to my ears! ?

[richinspain]

7 hours ago, FindernRam said:

I partially agree. However in the seasons when we were pushing for promotion it would have taken a very brave manager to play kids rather than seasoned pros. They would also have been even younger than today and not really ready..

The academy has "matured" just at the time we have a manger who likes nurturing youngsters, and when we don't really have a realistic prospect of promotion or relegation, so can try some out relatively risk free.

IF we make the play-offs and IF injuries allow it will be interesting to see who makes the team then. 

You're right that the academy has matured at the right time for Cocu, but Rowett not only never picked academy players he supposedly never even watched them play. It's probably correct that they weren't ready, but he went completely in the opposite direction and bought seasoned (to be kind to the players) rather than promising players. The average age of the squad rocketed. Yes, we were pushing for promotion but the squad was never viable with time. Lampard did play young players, unfortunately only Bogle of the regulars was our player. He did give others a chance though. Masson Bennett played his best football for us under Lampard. Max Bird had a couple of games as well. Lowe was also pushing for a place but it was felt that a season in Scotland was better for his development (probably a good decision). Basically, only Lampard to a degree was trying to bring the youth through before Cocu. I think Mac may have done given time but we'll never know.

[RamNut]

I had my doubts that that the academy would produce the necessary quality as we watched elsnik, Vernam, guy, rawson, Thomas and others drift away. But it really has come up trumps with bird, sibley and knight. Rooney has raised the bar, although Bogle is currently flat lining a little bit, and Lowe has work to do if he wants to be a full back. (I still think holding midfield is his natural position).but what a fantastic return! and there could yet be more to come. I really like the look of ebosele, so hopefully he could yet make the bench before the season is out.

Well done Melvin.

 

 

 

[LeedsCityRam]

43 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I had my doubts that that the academy would produce the necessary quality as we watched elsnik, Vernam, guy, rawson, Thomas and others drift away. But it really has come up trumps with bird, sibley and knight. Rooney has raised the bar, although Bogle is currently flat lining a little bit, and Lowe has work to do if he wants to be a full back. (I still think holding midfield is his natural position).but what a fantastic return! and there could yet be more to come. I really like the look of ebosele, so hopefully he could yet make the bench before the season is out.

Well done Melvin.

 

 

 

To play devil's advocate, I wonder if Elsnik and Guy in particular would have made it had they been given chances. Both Bird and Sibley got first team action very early then spent months on the sidelines...it probably helped both (and the coaching staff) realise what needed work. 

Re Bogle, yes possibly so but all our young lads will flatline and then kick on. Thats the exciting thing about youth, the potential is unrealised but there are big fluctuations in form as they learn & develop.

Also never heard anyone advocate Max Lowe as a natural holding midfielder before...interesting theory although he strikes me as a natural wide player.

[angieram]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

You're right that the academy has matured at the right time for Cocu, but Rowett not only never picked academy players he supposedly never even watched them play. It's probably correct that they weren't ready, but he went completely in the opposite direction and bought seasoned (to be kind to the players) rather than promising players. The average age of the squad rocketed. Yes, we were pushing for promotion but the squad was never viable with time. Lampard did play young players, unfortunately only Bogle of the regulars was our player. He did give others a chance though. Masson Bennett played his best football for us under Lampard. Max Bird had a couple of games as well. Lowe was also pushing for a place but it was felt that a season in Scotland was better for his development (probably a good decision). Basically, only Lampard to a degree was trying to bring the youth through before Cocu. I think Mac may have done given time but we'll never know.

Gary Rowett was a regular at St George's Park for under 23s; didn't seem to act on it, though.

[richinspain]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Gary Rowett was a regular at St George's Park for under 23s; didn't seem to act on it, though.

Thought I'd heard that he didn't attend, but I may mixing him up with Clement.

[angieram]

44 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Thought I'd heard that he didn't attend, but I may mixing him up with Clement.

Yes, I don't think I ever saw Clement at a youth game; I also heard he didn't even go to check out the first team opposition until we were drawn against Man United.

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Also never heard anyone advocate Max Lowe as a natural holding midfielder before...interesting theory although he strikes me as a natural wide player.

I think he gets out muscled at the back, whilst going forward he seems reluctant to get to the bye-line or shoot. but I think he is a potential max bird. Mobile. Nice touch. Needs more freedom.  
 

[Rampage]

On 21/06/2020 at 18:57, Spanish said:

Still think that if florest and Leeds get prompted it will be a very bitter pill

Watching Florist getting hammered most weeks has its advantages. 

[europia]

22 hours ago, ram59 said:

We've being saying the same thing for the last 6 years, but it hasn't happened yet. 

Well I realise that, I'm as frustrated as every other supporter. I was really stating the situation we are currently in, and how we hopefully progress.