FindernRam Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Watched Liverpool last night. Basically 98 minutes of tedium with 2 minutes of scintillating play. The 98 minutes were essentially possession football with no one making forward runs. No-one risking a tackle. The endless passes across the back four would make even Derby blush. The moments of brilliance were the result of long passes (hoofball) and goals resulted. Man City scored a fantastic goal from a goalkick (even more hoof hoofball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Watched Liverpool last night. Basically 98 minutes of tedium with 2 minutes of scintillating play. The 98 minutes were essentially possession football with no one making forward runs. No-one risking a tackle. The endless passes across the back four would make even Derby blush. The moments of brilliance were the result of long passes (hoofball) and goals resulted. Man City scored a fantastic goal from a goalkick (even more hoof hoofball). You seem to misunderstand the term. "Hoofball" describes a style of play that involves aimlessly hitting the ball long, and then hounding the defenders into letting it bounce or putting out of play so that your team can move forward with basically no technical ability. Sometimes the ball finds a target man and he can hold the ball up, but usually he's looking to win a freekick in order to achieve the same goal. Exquisite long passes are not "hoofball", they are often technically impressive and require a possession based system to pull your opposition out of shape in order to target the space in behind. Counter attacking is often very effective for those teams too, despite being less common (because you usually have the ball), your opposition is more likely to commit more numbers to an attack when they actually get an opportunity, which also lends itself to a particularly impressive long pass. You have to have the ball for a huge portion of the game to pull those passes off with any regularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Watched Liverpool last night. Basically 98 minutes of tedium with 2 minutes of scintillating play. The 98 minutes were essentially possession football with no one making forward runs. No-one risking a tackle. The endless passes across the back four would make even Derby blush. The moments of brilliance were the result of long passes (hoofball) and goals resulted. Man City scored a fantastic goal from a goalkick (even more hoof hoofball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, FindernRam said: Watched Liverpool last night. Basically 98 minutes of tedium with 2 minutes of scintillating play. The 98 minutes were essentially possession football with no one making forward runs. No-one risking a tackle. The endless passes across the back four would make even Derby blush. The moments of brilliance were the result of long passes (hoofball) and goals resulted. Man City scored a fantastic goal from a goalkick (even more hoof hoofball). I watched the game and didn't find it tedious as you describe. Liverpool are genuinely one of the most fun attacking teams to watch along with Spurs and City IMO in England at the moment. I for one would love Derby to play like Liverpool. It would be insane to have Tom Lawrence go off for 30 plus goals this season much like Liverpool's system allowed Salah to last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 They are brilliant to watch IMO. Yes I would like to play like Liverpool. Also, Calling city 'hoofball', because their keeper played a brilliant and intelligent ball 80 yards downfield is a bit silly. They also play possession, attacking football. The difference is, they have the intelligence to know when to play that 'hoofball' and when to play out from the back. The fact that we are playing out from the back when it isn't on is why we are conceding embarrassing goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, FindernRam said: Watched Liverpool last night. Basically 98 minutes of tedium with 2 minutes of scintillating play. The 98 minutes were essentially possession football with no one making forward runs. No-one risking a tackle. The endless passes across the back four would make even Derby blush. The moments of brilliance were the result of long passes (hoofball) and goals resulted. Man City scored a fantastic goal from a goalkick (even more hoof hoofball). I actually went to the etihad on Sunday (mates a city fan and had a spare ticket so thought why not) and believe me they do not play hoofball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 In the first half Liverpool had 85% possession there were no shots on target, no corners, barely got in the Palace box. Sheer boredom frankly! As far as hoofball is concerned I'm using the definition commonly accepted on this forum which is any forward pass over 3 yards. I was being sarcastic! I like to see incisive forward passes. I don't like what Liverpool did for much of last night. Be interesting to see what we play like tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Yeah, who wants to play like Liverpool or City. Cha! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thederbyram Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I've thought this a lot since Leeds - playing out from the back is not a problem. Playing out from the back slowly is the problem. Has anyone else watched the All or Nothing documentary on Man City? The way they play is one, two touch passes, yes including going sideways at the back. The purpose of going sideways should always be with the idea of using a particular side to attack. When Keogh et al put their foot on the ball and wait for a striker, then pass it on to the other defender, that's counter-intuitive and invites pressure and the other team can get into their shape.. Instead, with midfield options and one/two touches per player, you can create angles around the other team because they're out of position. If you saw our goal against Millwall, that's the sort of quick passing we need. It's no more "long ball" than anything else we've played, but it's done at pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKRam Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I want to play Liverpool ? Regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Thing is we do not have the players to play fast out of the back. We need to play to our strengths not an impossible dream. But my original point is still valid watching 35 (I counted them) passes across the back line and only two going into the Palace last third is not fun. Maybe they were trying to draw Palace out, but it didn't work. I was so bored I thought the game was 100 minutes, it felt like it in the first half. Apparently so were the rest of you as no-one picked up on my typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 51 minutes ago, thederbyram said: I've thought this a lot since Leeds - playing out from the back is not a problem. Playing out from the back slowly is the problem. Has anyone else watched the All or Nothing documentary on Man City? The way they play is one, two touch passes, yes including going sideways at the back. The purpose of going sideways should always be with the idea of using a particular side to attack. When Keogh et al put their foot on the ball and wait for a striker, then pass it on to the other defender, that's counter-intuitive and invites pressure and the other team can get into their shape.. Instead, with midfield options and one/two touches per player, you can create angles around the other team because they're out of position. If you saw our goal against Millwall, that's the sort of quick passing we need. It's no more "long ball" than anything else we've played, but it's done at pace. City’s centre backs also happen to spend most of their time specially at home 10 yards inside the opposition half. Pep actually said that the reason for this is that teams focus on closing down Fernandinho when he has the ball so instead he pushes 10 yards on and the centre backs almost take up what would be his position. Interestingly when I was at the city game Sunday I said to my mate why do no opposition teams actually put a striker or two behind / beyond the centre backs and press them from behind to rush their passes. It’s huge risk but for a ten min spell at the start of the game it could unsettle them. Back to derby anyhow, ever since clement we have been far too slow at getting the ball into the midfield. I think this is an issue for many championship clubs who try to play out from the back. I’d argue only Fulham last season and Swansea of old have done it really well. Arguably we did in 13 14 but I don’t think we have consistently since. I think Lampard has an idealistic way of playing and I think it is proving to all the fifa and fm managers in the stands that changing a team to a new style is much harder said than done. I do think this team is only missing the cdm and a ball playing centre half and we should be top 6 contenders. I really hope lampard realises we may need to give Thorne a go and he somehow refinds some vein of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Thing is we do not have the players to play fast out of the back. We need to play to our strengths not an impossible dream. But my original point is still valid watching 35 (I counted them) passes across the back line and only two going into the Palace last third is not fun. Maybe they were trying to draw Palace out, but it didn't work. I was so bored I thought the game was 100 minutes, it felt like it in the first half. Apparently so were the rest of you as no-one picked up on my typo. Doesn't mean your point is valid because you are bored. It isn't Klopp's job to entertain you. You think Liverpool fans would prefer to have Big Sam or Tony Pulis in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, Casio said: It isn't Klopp's job to entertain you. Of course it is! Why else would people go to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Of course it is! Why else would people go to games. Yeah you're right, fair play. Klopp out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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