What can DCFC learn from the impressive progress of Bournemouth, Watford and Burnley?

[Rampage]

I have to say that Bournemouth, Watford and Burnley have made impressive progress in the last few years. Simple answer is that they have excellent Managers and Boards but there are other factors that DCFC could surely learn from. Their signings have been impressive in that they have given value for money but I think that there are issues. What do you think?

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[LeedsCityRam]

38 minutes ago, Rampage said:

I have to say that Bournemouth, Watford and Burnley have made impressive progress in the last few years. Simple answer is that they have excellent Managers and Boards but there are other factors that DCFC could surely learn from. Their signings have been impressive in that they have given value for money but I think that there are issues. What do you think?

.

Canny player recruitment is probably the one thing that unites what are 3 very different routes to (relative) success. Bournemouth & Burnley have mainly recruited from lower leagues whereas Watford have mainly gone down the foreign route, as a member of the Pozzo family portfolio. This is probably the area that differs most from us, as we only seem to shop in the 'flavour of the month in our division/Prem dropdown market' - a strategy that costs a lot more money & that to date, hasn't brought much success. I'd really like to see us stop the constant splurge of cash & recruit from a wider player base. 

One other factor to consider is that expectations at the 3 clubs are/will have been far lower than at Derby, meaning that a strategy of steady progress, bargain buys & managerial continuity becomes that much easier. Its no coincidence that we see clubs like the aforementioned 3 clubs & Swansea in the Prem whilst Leeds, Sheff Weds, Villa, Newcastle etc all languish in the division below.

[Rampage]

4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Canny player recruitment is probably the one thing that unites what are 3 very different routes to (relative) success. Bournemouth & Burnley have mainly recruited from lower leagues whereas Watford have mainly gone down the foreign route, as a member of the Pozzo family portfolio. This is probably the area that differs most from us, as we only seem to shop in the 'flavour of the month in our division/Prem dropdown market' - a strategy that costs a lot more money & that to date, hasn't brought much success. I'd really like to see us stop the constant splurge of cash & recruit from a wider player base. 

One other factor to consider is that expectations at the 3 clubs are/will have been far lower than at Derby, meaning that a strategy of steady progress, bargain buys & managerial continuity becomes that much easier. Its no coincidence that we see clubs like the aforementioned 3 clubs & Swansea in the Prem whilst Leeds, Sheff Weds, Villa, Newcastle etc all languish in the division below.

Top quality post, LeedsCityRam.

[Van der MoodHoover]

24 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Canny player recruitment is probably the one thing that unites what are 3 very different routes to (relative) success. Bournemouth & Burnley have mainly recruited from lower leagues whereas Watford have mainly gone down the foreign route, as a member of the Pozzo family portfolio. This is probably the area that differs most from us, as we only seem to shop in the 'flavour of the month in our division/Prem dropdown market' - a strategy that costs a lot more money & that to date, hasn't brought much success. I'd really like to see us stop the constant splurge of cash & recruit from a wider player base. 

One other factor to consider is that expectations at the 3 clubs are/will have been far lower than at Derby, meaning that a strategy of steady progress, bargain buys & managerial continuity becomes that much easier. Its no coincidence that we see clubs like the aforementioned 3 clubs & Swansea in the Prem whilst Leeds, Sheff Weds, Villa, Newcastle etc all languish in the division below.

Watford are hardly a shining example of manager continuity tho....

If anything,  the only takeaway from these 3 is that there is no universal blueprint for success. 

[Sparkle]

Simple, get promotion and be sensible 

[Inglorius]

Being a football manager is easy according to Harry Storer all you have to do is sign good players.

[Bris Vegas]

Having a football principle, a system, and recruit to said system.

Manager continuity isn't all that important if the playing style adopted by the club doesn't change. It makes transitions that much easier to navigate through.

Burnley are overachieving and I still expect them to go down. 

Bournemouth could be in the PL for however long Howe wants to stay there. While he is clearly a talented manager, the recruitment there and the club ethos means they are set-up for long-term success.

Wouldn't surprise me if Watford go down soon. They've done things differently, but I don't see them as a settled club at all in terms of playing style and recruitment. 

While the PL has clubs such as Sunderland and Hull in it, there will always be a chance to stay up. 

I'd rather Derby go up, stick to the system and recruit, even it means falling short the first time, than going up and just entering survival mode like Sunderland have done and battle every year with a raft of different managers, types of player and recruitment policy.

Next season, you can already tell that Hull and Sunderland (should they go down) will be a mess in the Championship, in terms that they won't challenge for a top two spot.

 

[Rampage]

Does it look like we have a system more or less in place and a core of players capable of staying up at the first attempt?

With Maclaren at the helm, do you think that we would be faring better than hull?

[Van der MoodHoover]

At present we're not good enough for the prem.  We don't carry enough goal threat and would probably be a bit Burnley like in terms of trying to rely on home form against teams around us.

The Base 433 system is ok but our style of quick passing football with lots of movement and triangles is a long way off imo. 

Some interesting thoughts on other threads re different manifestation of the 433 utilising the different types of player we have but they all need work with a stable squad to refine and put into practice. 

[Alph]

They've never abandoned their philosophies. That's amazing for Watford who have gone through so many managers but they have begun to look more ragged now.

Burnley aren't pretty to watch. If Derby played like that I think I'd get bored no matter what division. Football is supposed to be fun. 

But they have a Watford way, a Burnley way and a Bournemouth way. It makes recruiting so much easier. It means when things don't work out that you can identify what isn't working. You know what it looked like when it worked. You can upgrade your players

It's a much better approach than getting the best CB you can get to play CB. The best ST you can get to play upfront. The best manager you can get to manage the whole thing. 

Because chairman get desperate they go for those with a good CV. But then when they sack them they get the next best CV. You end up with Sunderland/Villa etc. Squads of a confused mess. Players over here bought for one philosophy and players there bought in for that job that doesn't exist anymore. 

Doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes a team like Swansea who have tried to stick to their way we just recruit badly. They managed to downgrade most their team gradually. And Stoke obviously had a massive change from Pulis to Hughes. 

But to play it safe then you have to have some guidelines. 

No point in letting say Nigel Pearson sign Vydra to play on the counter attack with the likes of Hughes and Butterfield and then letting McClaren bring Martin back only to sack him and put Mick McCarthy in charge. All those people have had success at this level. But if they were to pass through this club like that then it's not going to help us grow over time. 

[TigerTedd]

11 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Canny player recruitment is probably the one thing that unites what are 3 very different routes to (relative) success. Bournemouth & Burnley have mainly recruited from lower leagues whereas Watford have mainly gone down the foreign route, as a member of the Pozzo family portfolio. This is probably the area that differs most from us, as we only seem to shop in the 'flavour of the month in our division/Prem dropdown market' - a strategy that costs a lot more money & that to date, hasn't brought much success. I'd really like to see us stop the constant splurge of cash & recruit from a wider player base. 

One other factor to consider is that expectations at the 3 clubs are/will have been far lower than at Derby, meaning that a strategy of steady progress, bargain buys & managerial continuity becomes that much easier. Its no coincidence that we see clubs like the aforementioned 3 clubs & Swansea in the Prem whilst Leeds, Sheff Weds, Villa, Newcastle etc all languish in the division below.

Cardiff vs Swansea always made me laugh. Cardiff were perennial play off participants, with the likes of Bellamy in their team, then Swansea came from no where, got promoted and established in the premier league while Cardiff finally made it up for one season and then plunged to obscurity. That must really piss Cardiff off.

I do worry that we'll end up being Cardiff, and that someone like Burton will come from no where and end up being more successful. 

[Bridgford Ram]

Southampton really are the model we need to be looking at, and I believe this is probably what Mel Morris would like us to become.  Players brought through the ranks and in from abroad cheaply.

i think the most impressive thing about Southampton - and I don't think I have ever seen this mentioned anywhere - is that when players move away for big money they tend to struggle initially (except Mane) meaning that the set up at St Mary's probably gets the maximum from each player.

[DerbyMark]

I agree about Southampton, I think most clubs are looking at how they do it, but in answer to the question about what we can learn from Burnley, Bournemouth and Watford well those clubs don't have the burden of expectation for a start...they use the underdog tag to their advantage.

Burnley and Bournemouth certainly also have good home grown managers who get the whole club pulling in the same direction, and they prioritise their home games which is vital in order to stay in the Premier League.

Saw Watford against Spurs the other night and they stood around like statue's letting Tottenham run through them..