Premier League? Are we NOT having a laugh?

[Martinh]

1 hour ago, RamuelLJackson said:

1 Players tire, lose concentration, get knocks, make mistakes, slip, are outpaced or overpowered. When this happens under the sort of extreme man-to-man marking system you are advocating, the rest of the team might be in no position to cover without abandoning their own marking responsibilities. You are absolutely relying on the sweeper to be anywhere he is needed, instantly. Realistically at this level, that's not going to happen, and Igor Stimac isn't walking back through that door. I want to know what the plan is when someone isn't doing their job.

2 You are also ceding a lot of possession to the opposition keeper, though that's probably much less of an issue.

1 Players tire. All I see is them walking around half the time.

  Lose concentration, asking on defense, chase a fella around the pitch and harry him.

  Get knocks, if you can run, if not go off.

  Make mistakes, there is an art to beating your man to the ball or pressuring him, if he gets it.

  Quite teachable if you have a brain. 

  Slip, never seen two team mates slip at the same time.

  Out paced, these guys don't accelerate more than ten yards twenty tops.

  The rest of the team does not have to break into a panic, if one guy breaks through with the ball.

  Sweeper most of the time just gets the ball over the top.

   If you operate this right,  you deny the opposition a lot of possession, in the first place.

   Some one isn't doing their job, a donkey could mark a player.

   Sorry don't really get the issue with the goal keeper. Except he is not much of a threat back there.

  

  

   

[Martinh]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

So nobody puts pressure on the ball? 

So he's free to do as he pleases

Every Def. player has responsibility for an Att. player.

Our centre forward is responsible for their two center backs.

Our sweeper is free the majority of the time.

If your player gets the ball, you are already on him.

If an Att, player breaks through and loses his man.

Someone has to pressure the ball and him quickly.

Sweeper sends out a defender, usually the case.

Sweeper marks last defenders Att. player.

[Rev]

10 minutes ago, Martinh said:

Every Def. player has responsibility for an Att. player.

Our centre forward is responsible for their two center backs.

Our sweeper is free the majority of the time.

If your player gets the ball, you are already on him.

If an Att, player breaks through and loses his man.

Someone has to pressure the ball and him quickly.

Sweeper sends out a defender, usually the case.

Sweeper marks last defenders Att. player.

So our lone striker covers 2 defenders, who may be 40 yds apart, but the opponents forward(s) won't drop onto our sweeper, leaving him free to run the game?

[Martinh]

7 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

So our lone striker covers 2 defenders, who may be 40 yds apart, but the opponents forward(s) won't drop onto our sweeper, leaving him free to run the game?

Disagree, two opposing center backs are never more than 15, 20 yards apart. 

And they are not fond of going forward.

The opponents forward, that is exactly what he should do.

Def. sweeper has command of the back line.

Uses the offside rule bringing that line out  Att. forward also

Sweeper places himself alongside team mates, square repeatedly

But can easily drop 5,10.15 yards back necessary.

Moves take take time to develop, for him to move across the pitch.

Att. player often distracted just trying to get the ball.

[Martinh]

Me signing off for evening, don't wait up.

Thank you for the comments, even if me not singing at them all.

[Alph]

It wouldn't work. That's why no teams use it. Going man for man is suicide. 

You say you'd leave 1 striker to deal with two defenders? So the rest of the team would lead their markers away from the CB's. They could lead your entire team deep into their own half? The minute someone steps to close the ball then they leave a man. If they don't then you're letting an attacking team pull you away from the ball.

It just doesn't play like that. 

Attackers don't all move to receive the ball. They move to move defenders, to create space in the area the defender was so it can be filled by a fellow attacker who's followed by a defender who leaves space to be filled by an attacker...

and on and on in the circle of life. To follow in theory you could end up with Keogh on the RW and Ince at CB. 

That's why nobody sticks rigidly to a marking style. 

You have to let attackers go. You can't follow them everywhere. You pick men up in your zone. You allow the opposition to have the ball in some areas and make some zones crowded.

It's so much more complex. Teams move in shape. They press areas that suit them. Encourage opponent passes to areas they press. And they allow some players freedom while others they crowd. 

That's why we have a tactical game. It's chess to a manager. And at full speed it's full of mistakes, magic and unpredictability. 

And it's ridiculously hard to get 11 blokes to know when to press, step off, drop in here, pull this guy there, skip a pass etc etc because they don't have a birds eye view down there. They can't press pause and recognise they have been dragged away from the real danger and now one pass has taken him out the match. 

[Martinh]

48 minutes ago, Alpha said:

It wouldn't work. That's why no teams use it. Going man for man is suicide. 

You say you'd leave 1 striker to deal with two defenders? So the rest of the team would lead their markers away from the CB's. They could lead your entire team deep into their own half? The minute someone steps to close the ball then they leave a man. If they don't then you're letting an attacking team pull you away from the ball.

It just doesn't play like that. 

Attackers don't all move to receive the ball. They move to move defenders, to create space in the area the defender was so it can be filled by a fellow attacker who's followed by a defender who leaves space to be filled by an attacker...

and on and on in the circle of life. To follow in theory you could end up with Keogh on the RW and Ince at CB. 

That's why nobody sticks rigidly to a marking style. 

You have to let attackers go. You can't follow them everywhere. You pick men up in your zone. You allow the opposition to have the ball in some areas and make some zones crowded.

It's so much more complex. Teams move in shape. They press areas that suit them. Encourage opponent passes to areas they press. And they allow some players freedom while others they crowd. 

That's why we have a tactical game. It's chess to a manager. And at full speed it's full of mistakes, magic and unpredictability. 

And it's ridiculously hard to get 11 blokes to know when to press, step off, drop in here, pull this guy there, skip a pass etc etc because they don't have a birds eye view down there. They can't press pause and recognise they have been dragged away from the real danger and now one pass has taken him out the match. 

I couldn't disagree more.

But that is life.

Want to thank you for your thoughts

[Martinh]

The bit about Keogh ending up on the RW and Ince at CB  is correct.

What harm is that for a brief period.

That is being rigid to say player is incapable of that.

They could switch during a break in play if it is prolonged.

 

[Martinh]

With all due respects you sound like every football man I have known,

for the last 40 years.

Did you ever talk to the Derby players.

They are fed up to the back teeth of all this complex stuff you are on about.

 

[Martinh]

         And that goes to any

11 minutes ago, Martinh said:

With all due respects you sound like every football man I have known,

for the last 40 years.

Did you ever talk to the Derby players.

They are fed up to the back teeth of all this complex stuff you are on about.

 

And that goes to any of the smart arsed commenters, I have had on here.

Talk to the players and get this thing on or get off the pot.

[Tamworthram]

8 hours ago, Martinh said:

         And that goes to any

And that goes to any of the smart arsed commenters, I have had on here.

Talk to the players and get this thing on or get off the pot.

Get off the pot? I take it from your posts that English isn't your first language.

 

Hilarious, keep up the comments Martin, 

[Philmycock]

Martin is right and everyone else is wrong. That's why he's employed at the top of the game, earning zillions.

[Bris Vegas]

Man marking every player would never work...

I mean, when you're in possession and Johnny Russell darts from the right flank to the middle to create space for Cyrus Christie, once Christie loses the ball, do you expect Russell to suddenly mark their LW when he's some 40 yards away?

You've got two men completely out the game, hence why your DM moves across.

If you man marked everyone, said LW from the opposition could just waltz down the wing freely. Somebody would have to come across, leaving spaces elsewhere.

You'd have to have 100% pass accuracy and a rigid formation in posession for a complete man-marking system to ever work. It's impossible, that's why nobody ever plays it.

Pep Guardiola tried it for Bayern against Barca, and he soon abandoned it after 20 minutes when Barca squandered glorious chances and should have been about 3-0 up. It was suicide.

 

 

 

[Rev]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Man marking every player would never work...

I mean, when you're in possession and Johnny Russell darts from the right flank to the middle to create space for Cyrus Christie, once Christie loses the ball, do you expect Russell to suddenly mark their LW when he's some 40 yards away?

You've got two men completely out the game, hence why your DM moves across.

If you man marked everyone, said LW from the opposition could just waltz down the wing freely. Somebody would have to come across, leaving spaces elsewhere.

You'd have to have 100% pass accuracy and a rigid formation in posession for a complete man-marking system to ever work. It's impossible, that's why nobody ever plays it.

Pep Guardiola tried it for Bayern against Barca, and he soon abandoned it after 20 minutes when Barca squandered glorious chances and should have been about 3-0 up. It was suicide.

 

 

 

Peps no Martinh though.

[Martinh]

Hold on I am sending for the cavalry.

[GboroRam]

4 hours ago, Martinh said:

Hold on I am sending for the cavalry.

I'm convinced. You're hired.

Oh, wait - it's a fans forum. We can't hire you. Sorry.

Pitching to the wrong people. 

[Martinh]

Great result.

You have got it all solved.

 

[Martinh]

Horse walks into a bar says, pint of lager please.

Barman says there is your pint, what's with the long face.

Sorry lightening the mood, in anticipation of my future hopes.

[Carnero]

If we man mark everybody, the opposition may very well just all pull wide and  let their GK walk the ball down the middle of the pitch before ramming it past Carson from 6 yards out.

[Martinh]

22 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said:

If we man mark everybody, the opposition may very well just all pull wide and  let their GK walk the ball down the middle of the pitch before ramming it past Carson from 6 yards out.

Thank you for your note.

No there is a Def. sweeper marking no one.

If someone breaks through unmarked into our half roughly. I do believe in pressuring the ball immediately.

A Def. player goal side of this Att .player will have to go to him.

If so sweeper picks up Def. players man.  

The sweeper could pressure the Att. player if getting nearer our goal or further out, his choice.

And all other Def. players keep their responsibilities.