The British disease

[YorkshireRam]

11 minutes ago, Ovis aries said:

Or maybe not good enough to get in the right position himself, did he see the ball late , I think not, did it come to him unexpectedly no again, that was the only place the ball was going to come, you give him the benefit of the doubt, I believe he should have scored , opinions .

that's simply not true, i'm sorry... it all depends on how Weimann delivers it, he could have smashed it in at head height or rolled it into his feet. As it turns out he did neither and crossed it at waist height which is bound to be awkward.

There are so many variables, not least Weimann's (or in fact any player's) inconsistency when crossing that it is impossible to say Bryson did anything wrong in the build up. Arguably he did more right, got in front of his man in a dangerous position for example. All that was required, once the ball was delivered was the slice of luck to take the ball past the keeper, which didn't come. You can see Bryson trying to bring his right leg up to strike it but he literally doesn't have time...

It's not an astonishing miss by any stretch, just one that needed a bit more luck, that's all

[LeedsCityRam]

21 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

 

Last night's win wasn't at all unexpected. 

With respect, I think it was.

I read a lot of rubbish on here & in the media in general about Derby's lack of heart/courage/bottle on Saturday which would have been entirely validated had Derby turned up on Tues & meekly surrendered in the face of what was basically a Wembley party at Hull. Instead, the players attacked from the off & absolutely ran themselves into the ground. I've seldom seen a bunch of professional players look so knackered after 80 mins - they literally could not have done anymore. And for that, the players & Wassall, for maintaining positivity & starting Weimann/Hendrick, deserve a lot of credit.

Where I think you do have a point is in questioning some of the later tactical decisions by the coaching team but the reality is this - Wassall is a managerial novice & this is why I am adamant that our next manager needs to have experience & crucially, a point to prove. Ince wasn't the ideal replacement for Weimann as tricks in front of Hull's back 4 was no substitute for pace & movement in behind their back 4 and Bent needed to come on from around 65/70 mins when it was clear we were no longer creating chances after the Bryson miss on 46 mins. But then its easy for me to point these things out in hindsight - much more difficult when in the hotseat as an inexperienced coach desperately trying not to destroy the fragile hope we had throughout the second half.

I agree that failure shouldn't be celebrated per se but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very proud of the team, Wassall & the fans for all turning up on Tuesday both mentally & physically. 

 

 

[jagerbob]

can I just comment on the thread title and say its not actually a british disease, its actually what any nations fans would do outside of the united states of america.

 

You only congratulate a galant effort when your own team still goes through. I remember a gallant attempt by a non league side at the iPro in FA Cup round 3 a year or 2 back, where it took us until 88 minutes to break them down. They worked their socks off and nearly forced a replay and the south stands appluase for them outweighed their own fans.... and all because it weas a agalant attempt, near but yet so far..... if they had beaten us... would we have reacted the same... no we would be booing our own team off.

[Albert]

22 hours ago, Ovis aries said:

Bryson's miss was diabolical, I wonder what we would all be writing if he had, and should have buried it.

Surprised not more has been said about it really, it was a shocking blunder.

Knee height and fired across goal slightly at him if I remember right. He could well have buried it, but you see those kinds of misses. Wasn't the hardest chance he'll ever get by any stretch, but he did well to position himself there, and those things happen. I honestly don't mind. 

Not sure if calling it the "British disease" is exactly fair. From the outside I'd say the British media are a giant bunch of babies that can't stand the idea that England haven't won every single tournament in the last century, I'm afraid I just don't see that in British culture. People should be proud of a great performance, of giving it their all, of going up against it and putting on a show, even if for nothing in the end. If you always say "if it's not gold it's nothing", then you're never getting that silver or bronze to build to the gold. 

Australia as a country, and one that to be blunt about it tends to be a damn site better of winning against the odds than England ever has, hails the underdogs, hails those beautiful loser and revels in it. It's not trophy or bust. I've seen the English media attack their sides mercilessly for good performances that resulted in expected losses, I'd argue that the idea of the glorious failure isn't part of British culture, or at least not in it's media.

Even on here, it's never about how "we did well despite" even, after any loss every the wrist slashers are straight to work explaining how not bringing Boulding on in exactly 17 seconds into the 74th minute cost us the game, it's rare that a loss is followed by "well it was a great effort" regardless of if it was or not. It's always onto some nonsense point about what someone did wrong where that be "Keogh always has a mistake in him" or "Walsall didn't put enough fairy dust on the halfway line before kickoff". 

The fact that the match chat was basically howling for a striker who has scored a whopping 2 goals this season, and are now basically blaming it for all woes of our time says it all. He somehow got the side to go away, 3 goals down, and get us back into the game, and playing brilliantly. He got his motivation right, he got his selection right, and yet "he lost us to the game" to some. If he'd brought Bent on earlier I'm sure it would all be "why bring Bent on, it cost us the game to take [player] off too soon!!!" 

I'm in no way saying that Walsall should be made the permanent manager, but I can't fault him for Tuesday, and I truly wish that "glorious failure" were the British disease, as this place would be less insufferable after losses if it were. 

For the record, Spain and Germany currently view a semi-final as a failure because they are literally two of the best football sides seen in recent memory, not because of some deep difference in mentality. Its not the mentality that makes them better than England, it's not the foreigners in the Premier League, it's not the way children are taught to butter their bread, its a complex mix of differences ranging from how grass roots football is handled to 'luck of the draw' if you will with the current generation of footballers. In any four year cycle there are a good 10-16 teams that all see themselves as genuine contenders for the World's biggest prize, England are but one. The excuses spun to try and cover the differences between reality and expectation about England's chances at times are quite frankly absurd. 

[Woodypecker]

I'm not really subscribing to some nebulous 'British disease' - but otherwise agree with Carl's thread-opening post.

We have got players that can't dig deeper or play to potential (or instructions) when it really matters, or recover 'lost' situations regularly enough to stay with the leading pack. Enough chances for many, including some 'big names', IMHO.

Rescuing pride after a fall, and accepting glorious failure as a late response, won't do any longer; lets get down to business, Mel!

Wassall has my thanks and best wishes however his career progresses - as long as Mel is wise and resourceful enough to appoint a more capable coach / manager and bona-fide coaching/technical backroom, to prepare us for promotion and beyond.

The failure to deploy the right tactics (in the Hull home leg, Hughes' position; Johnson's role) and exasperating lack of the introduction of attacking substitutes at the right times, via (i.e.) Bent and Camara, to refresh the team at The KCom tipped the odds in favour of Hull in both games in different ways. 

There were numerous other bewildering selections, tactics and sub-errors along the way in the last third of the season, even if some restoration of order and teamwork sustained Derby enough to retain a top-6 finish.

IMHO it's no good 'going again' with pretty much the same squad, as falling short three times on the bounce now begs for fresh approaches, minds and legs.

We really do have to aim for Top Two and hit the ground running in August, with a fit, strong blend and players deployed in their rightful positions for some stability, to create pattern and style in the way we play.

Some bigger, wiser personalities needed, on and off the pitch.

[Ovis aries]

I wish them all the luck next season, I fear this season was my last chance of seeing the Rams promoted to the Premier league, close again but no cigar.

It will be even harder next season, especially if Hughes goes ,( I have already said I think he should).

If we are to have a new coach he should be in soon as, before we sign about four players he may not want.

[rynny]

21 hours ago, Ovis aries said:

Do not think Suarez, or Messi, or Ronaldo, or Ibrahimovic would have missed it, it really was a walk in.

[Ovis aries]

45 minutes ago, rynny said:

Bet those misses did not maybe cost £140 million.

[SaintRam]

Just now, Ovis aries said:

Bet those misses did not maybe cost £140 million.

No, put they're being paid at least 10x what Bryson's being paid, and we all know that's a very conservative estimate. 

Won't be upset with a guy for missing a chance that looked easier than it was, because if it wasn't for him at the tail end of the season we may not have even been in a position with a chance.