The British disease

[Carl Sagan]

I didn't want to spoil @ilkleyram's clearly heartfelt thread by disagreeing in it, so have started another one. I appreciate the sentiments behind it, but I would say it's just that: sentimentality. He writes:

"Those who say ‘yes, but we lost overall’ are correct of course, but you miss the point.  Sometimes sport and competition is about more than winning or losing, sometimes it’s about the spirit and the performance. And last night was just such an occasion.  I suspect that we have won more self respect and other friends in losing the tie but playing the way we did than we would have done by winning more ordinarily.  I cannot recall in 50 plus years of watching ever being applauded by opposition fans as we were last night. Decent people in Hull."

This is the British disease of glorious failure. I do not care for it. Sport is not about the taking part - it's about winning. Did Germany care when we were such plucky semifinal losers in Italia 90 or Euro 96? What about the Argies in the second round in France 98, when Beckham was sent off and Campbell had his goal disallowed? There are loads of others. I say the point is about winning the tie, not the spirit in which we lost it.

It's easy to applaud the opposition as a Hull fan because they're going to Wembley and we're not. I'd far rather be in their position. We're a laughing stock because we so clearly threw it away, so they're of course delighted to give us three cheers before quickly forgetting the semifinal and getting on with the rather more important business of trying to reach the Premier League from the Wembley turf.

Last night's win wasn't at all unexpected. They dropped deep from the start and were rattled when Russell scored straightaway. I would argue that having scored two goals so early on it was actually a significant failure not to have scored the third and never really to have threatened it. The players were as exemplary on Tuesday as they were poor on Saturday. Their problem was that in the effort to haul themselves back into the tie, some were clearly exhausted long before the end. But it needn't have been too big a problem, because this Hull side are not the fittest. We'd heard before the tie how they have struggled throughout the season to try to play two games in quick succession, and the evidence was there before our eyes. Watching the game, after 65/70 minutes both teams had reached a standstill.

This was fine for Hull but meant we were going out unless we did something. The glaringly obvious changes that had to be made at that point were Bent for the knackered Russell and Camara for Olsson to change the formation. We needed to act decisively and go for it. An exhausted team is terrified of pace and Camara is lightning fast. Yet our coaching staff sat on their hands doing nothing for the next 15-20 minutes as our season slipped away through their fingers. On Saturday, Darren Bent was given 3 minutes to change the game. Here, so desperate for a goal, he was given just 7.

And if that in itself wasn't a joke of a decision, Abdul Camara came on with 30 seconds of regular time remaining. The guy we plucked from the top of the French league finally put on into a league game with 30 seconds left and told to go and save our season. The chances of reaching Wembley were slim, but we had to try to give ourselves a chance, yet we chose not to. And so we didn't create anything whatsoever in the final 30 minutes as a result.

Our coaching team (Wassall and Harry I presume) didn't react last night. They needed to react in the first half on Saturday and swap Hughes and Johnson over, but changed nothing. And of course made catastrophic blunders earlier. So we're out and some will say we failed gloriously and can hold our heads up high, but I cannot be proud or pleased by that. It annoys and angers me that we had the chance of reaching the final, but threw it away with poor decision-making. I wanted to begin next season in the Premier League but instead we start yet again at square one, with another 46 games to go, hoping this time we will have the nous and character and skill to win enough games as our mentality becomes ever more fragile and we become accustomed to losing, even if that is as "plucky losers". Can we be ugly winners next time?

[SaintRam]

For us (fans), sport is not about the taking part OR the winning. For us, sport is about the watching. 

 

Could not disagree with your perspective more. For me, sport is entertainment, nothing more. 

[Animal is a Ram]

Proper ray of little sunshine you are.

Look what happened the last time we were ugly winners.

And if being proud of that display is the British disease, then I'm proud to be infected. What's sport without the sentimentality? If it wasn't about the heart and soul, we'd all be Leicester City fans. 

Always a Ram, win lose or draw. That's what makes sport great.

[PistoldPete2]

some people will criticise regardless of what you do. Rams were criticised for giving up after we went 1-0 down on Saturday. Then , when we bring it back from 3-0 to 3-2 the same people say what's the point? FFS. 

[Ovis aries]

Bryson's miss was diabolical, I wonder what we would all be writing if he had, and should have buried it.

Surprised not more has been said about it really, it was a shocking blunder.

[SaintRam]

Just now, Ovis aries said:

Bryson's miss was diabolical, I wonder what we would all be writing if he had, and should have buried it.

Surprised not more has been said about it really, it was a shocking blunder.

Can't bring myself to be all that bothered by it, in all honesty.

[Wolfie]

That whole argument is nothing more than benefit of hindsight. zzzzz

 

[Saturn5]

3 minutes ago, Ovis aries said:

Bryson's miss was diabolical, I wonder what we would all be writing if he had, and should have buried it.

Surprised not more has been said about it really, it was a shocking blunder.

What IF Johnson hadn't lost possesion for Hull's 1st goal on Saturday 

Bryson was brilliant last night and gave everything on Saturday

I can't slate him for that miss, even if it would have turned the whole game

[Ovis aries]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

That whole argument is nothing more than benefit of hindsight. zzzzz

 

So I bet you did not say anything at the time , yeah right

[Wolfie]

4 minutes ago, Ovis aries said:

So I bet you did not say anything at the time , yeah right

Yes, maybe I did want the subs done a bit earlier but I also knew that it was a risk making them (relatively) early and then potentially going into extra time with no subs left and a team dead on its feet.

It's easy to bitch about this decision that wasn't made or made at the wrong time when you're not the one with the responsibility for it.

We didn't get promoted because we weren't good enough over 48 games. Not because Darren Wassall subbed Bent on 10 minutes too late in one game.

With the benefit of hindsight, we should have taken that free kick (doesn't matter which) with 10% more power than we did. the outcome of the game would have been totally different. See?. Pointless.

[nottingram]

If you're so bothered about winning then we're better off in the Championship where we're likely to win more games than we lose anyway so what's the problem? We're only ever likely to take part in the Premier League, not win it.

Saying we failed yesterday is nonsense as well. At 7 o'clock last night there wasn't anyone saying we had a chance of going through, realistically. But we did have a chance to restore a little bit of pride and the players had a chance to show that they cared and to show that they wanted to play for us. They did that.

[B4ev6is]

I did 

I said from the off if we could get 2 quick goals we stood a chance.

[Highgate]

I think you have to differentiate between the players and the fans.  It's correct that players and management shouldn't be satisfied with last night's spirited effort. The single minded winning mentality should be second nature to them, and they should look back at the 3-2 defeat to Hull with numbing disappointment and a determination to learn from their mistakes.  For them glorious failure should be no comfort.

But as fans, watching from the sidelines we have a different reality.  We are not professionals, and our determination, focus etc...is all irrelevant to the result.  We won't stop supporting the team, if we get a better offer from another team (hopefully that's true for everyone!) and we'll be there no matter how bad the team are.  I think for the majority of fans, the manner of performance by the team that we support does matter.  I certainly feel better when i see the Rams, give their all like they did last night..rather than watch that insipid anaemic almost cowardly display we witnessed last Saturday.  It makes the world of difference in my opinion. 

[Sexydadbod]

In relation to the British disease you're right. In Spain and Germany it's regarded as a failure reaching the semi finals whereas a lot of people in England will be happy with a semi final finish in the euros. 

[Wolfie]

If winning is the most important thing to some of you, why are you Derby fans at all and not Barcelona?. Surely anything other than winning the Club World Cup is failure?.

Why would anyone put themselves through nothing but failure year after year?.

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, McLovin said:

In relation to the British disease you're right. In Spain and Germany it's regarded as a failure reaching the semi finals whereas a lot of people in England will be happy with a semi final finish in the euros. 

But Spain and Germany are better than England?

As a Derby fan I'd be happy to finish in the semi finals of the FA Cup, Chelsea fans might not think the same.

[Sexydadbod]

Because non of us are in Barcelona. Going through the bad times will make us appreciate the good times even more. Doesn't mean that I want mediocrity for the club either. I just want to see Derby compete in the top league in England and give their all. 

[Casio]

1 minute ago, Wolfie said:

If winning is the most important thing to some of you, why are you Derby fans at all and not Barcelona?. Surely anything other than winning the Club World Cup is failure?.

Why would anyone put themselves through nothing but failure year after year?.

Totally agree, surely every season as a Derby supporter you've been pulling your hair out then?! Doesn't sound like much fun to me. 

These years are much better than what we endured under Clough, at least it's somewhat exciting being a Rams fan in our current era, and there is hope.

[YouRams]

1 hour ago, Ovis aries said:

Bryson's miss was diabolical, I wonder what we would all be writing if he had, and should have buried it.

Surprised not more has been said about it really, it was a shocking blunder.

Brysons miss stands out, but so do the numerous free kicks we wasted in brilliant positions. All ifs and buts now, It wasn't meant to be and we go again next season.

Look on the bright side, at least we have England to let us down over the summer too. Its joyful being an English Ram.

[Animal is a Ram]

2 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Because non of us are in Barcelona. Going through the bad times will make us appreciate the good times even more. Doesn't mean that I want mediocrity for the club either. I just want to see Derby compete in the top league in England and give their all. 

Derby are far from mediocre. Your profile picture was when Derby were mediocre.