St. Jimmy Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 hour ago, McLovin said: I wouldn't be object to losing Martin, I'd be more annoyed if we lost Keogh. Keogh starts all of the attacks with his running out of the defence. If we did lose him we'd lose out both offensively and defensively. If we do go with a 4-4-2 which I think we will it makes me wonder where Martin will fit in. It looks like Ince's new found position is behind the front man but Ince plays a lot better with Bent than he does with Martin as Bent stretches the game which gives Ince more time and space. Him and Bent seem to have a telepathic understanding where Ince knows exactly when to play the ball to Bent. In contrast, Martin drops too deep to get involved with the play which hinders both his game and Ince's game as they get in the way of each other. Thus, if we play both Martin and Ince together in a front 2 I don't think we will see the best of either of them. ALL of the attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 minute ago, St. Jimmy said: ALL of the attacks? Maybe not all of them but he certainly does with a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, McLovin said: Maybe not all of them but he certainly does with a lot of them. And there lies a problem when he's surging forward and it breaks down we are suddenly light at the back. Hulls 3rd goals in the semi final at the IPRO for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, curtains said: And there lies a problem when he's surging forward and it breaks down we are suddenly light at the back. Hulls 3rd goals in the semi final at the IPRO for example. Didn't they come from a corner where Ince failed to get the ball past the first defender? Long time ago so memory may fail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, curtains said: And there lies a problem when he's surging forward and it breaks down we are suddenly light at the back. Hulls 3rd goals in the semi final at the IPRO for example. I appreciate it must be frustrating to some seeing Keogh make mistakes by losing the ball when charging forward but all the best teams in the world make their centre backs charge forward with the ball but the fans don't criticize them if they make a mistake because they appreciate that over a course of a season you will get more points than not using this method as it will open space, often goalscoring opportunities, for the other players. Of course if you make a mistake then it could be more costly but it's high risk with high reward. Keogh is a good defender and if he has this ability to charge forward and open space for others then it's a positive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Didn't they come from a corner where Ince failed to get the ball past the first defender? Long time ago so memory may fail me! You are most probably right and Butterfield should of took one for the team. Im talking in general though about Keoghs surges breaking down leaving us short at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 minute ago, curtains said: You are most probably right and Butterfield should of took one for the team. Im talking in general though about Keoghs surges breaking down leaving us short at the back. You pick such weird fault with players. Keogh's a liability because he sometimes loses the ball when surging out of defence, and Martin falls over a lot... Nothing to do with their basic defending and attacking play. Fun fact: Keogh was the centre-back who made the most clean sheets last season. Martin was the only forward last season to post double figures in goals and assists, and one of only two players in the Championship (Alan Judge) to post double figures in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 46 minutes ago, McLovin said: If we did sell Martin it's not as if we would stand around twiddling our thumbs, it's obvious that we'd have a quality replacement ready. Ulloa is being mentioned a lot who would be an upgrade on Martin. Ulloa would get 25-30 goals in this Derby team, he knows Pearson and what he expects, works a lot harder than Martin off the ball to put pressure on opposition defenders which would consequently give the rest of our players a breather and has just come off winning the premier league so is full of confidence. This winning mentality would also rub off on the rest of our team. If he is available then it's a no brainer imo. Not sure he would be an upgrade on Martin but rather useful to have as an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 48 minutes ago, McLovin said: If we did sell Martin it's not as if we would stand around twiddling our thumbs, it's obvious that we'd have a quality replacement ready. Ulloa is being mentioned a lot who would be an upgrade on Martin. Ulloa would get 25-30 goals in this Derby team, he knows Pearson and what he expects, works a lot harder than Martin off the ball to put pressure on opposition defenders which would consequently give the rest of our players a breather and has just come off winning the premier league so is full of confidence. This winning mentality would also rub off on the rest of our team. If he is available then it's a no brainer imo. He's not even reached 20 goals during a season whilst playing in England. How do you know he'll guarantee 25-30 goals for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 14 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: You pick such weird fault with players. Keogh's a liability because he sometimes loses the ball when surging out of defence, and Martin falls over a lot... Nothing to do with their basic defending and attacking play. Fun fact: Keogh was the centre-back who made the most clean sheets last season. Martin was the only forward last season to post double figures in goals and assists, and one of only two players in the Championship (Alan Judge) to post double figures in both. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/23438 Martin 1 goal every 3 games last season 10 assists Not that impressive is it. Keogh had Shackell with him digging him out week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuitYourJibbaJivin Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 62 goals in 3 seasons isn't it? 47 minutes ago, curtains said: How many goals last season ! 15 by my reckoning https://www.whoscored.com/Players/23438 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 minute ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said: 62 goals in 3 seasons isn't it? He was good the 1st season under McClaren but went missing at Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 49 minutes ago, curtains said: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/23438 Martin 1 goal every 3 games last season 10 assists Not that impressive is it. Keogh had Shackell with him digging him out week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satty atwal Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Ive an idea.... lets sell the best striker we have had since wanchope/baiano/sturridge, doesnt matter if he has averaged over 20 goals a year over last 3 seasons, better still lets give him to forest and take erm.... blackstock as a straight swap, we will walk the league because blackstock can run about up top, its easy this management malarky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, satty atwal said: Ive an idea.... lets sell the best striker we have had since wanchope/baiano/sturridge, doesnt matter if he has averaged over 20 goals a year over last 3 seasons, better still lets give him to forest and take erm.... blackstock as a straight swap, we will walk the league because blackstock can run about up top, its easy this management malarky His goals per game ratio has been going down exponentially per season at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 9 hours ago, curtains said: It won't be that amount . I would let Keogh and Martin go . They don't fit what Pearson and Powell are trying to do with Derby How do you know? Not saying you're wrong but how would you know what Perason and Powell's plans are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, 86 points said: How do you know? Not saying you're wrong but how would you know what Perason and Powell's plans are? It was an assumption based on the systems he plays Maybe I am wrong . Its my opinion that Pearson likes 4-4-2 and Martin is a bit slow for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I honestly don't know what some people are on smokin' with some of the stuff I read on here. How about keeping one of the best strikers we've had in a long time and buying to support, complement or cover for him. How about keeping one of the best centre halves we've had in a long time and buying to support, complement or cover for him? ... or, bin them both and bring in unkonwn quantities who we don't know will be any better than what we have. The slash and burn mentality does me head in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 minute ago, curtains said: It was an assumption based on the systems he plays Maybe I am wrong . Its my opinion that Pearson likes 4-4-2 and Martin is a bit slow for that How can a player be too slow for a formation? Too slow for a manager's style of play maybe, but for a whole formation? Give over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 So why say Martyin and Keogh don't fit Pearson and Powell's system when in reality you have no more insight than anyone else? There's a big difference between knowing the tha manager's plans and having an opinion, I don't get your posts mate. I agreed with your stance on Jeff who you feel has latent ability yet you'd chuck out our POTY and a proven goalscorer with zero knowledge as to who would replace them. Makes no sense to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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