Drug addiction

[Stive Pesley]

13 hours ago, StringerBell said:

Regardless of whether it's considered a disease, choice is still essential to a persons recovery. People have to want to help themselves and choose to recover. I don't like the way people try and **** all over behavioural approaches when they get some medical practitioners on their side as though behaviour has nothing to with addiction at all. For those who work with addicts, the 'disease' is wrapped up in the concept of motivation.

Why people categorise the things they do in the way they do has always been interesting to me. Technically from a biological point of view a whale is a mammal. But there's a reason children initially classify them as fish before some smart arse points out their 'error' - they're big sausages that swim around in the sea.

So what is addiction technically, and how do we categorise it? And what do we gain from classifying addiction as a disease? There's always a danger you normalise something when you medicalise it and I'm not sure that's always going to be helpful to addicts or the public. Most people in this field take a biopsychosocial approach, as in its probably a mixture of factors. But I don't think calling it a disease is particularly helpful to anyone and although I'm no neuroscientist the logic behind why it's recently been classified as a disease seems a bit sketchy. Addiction (read taking lots of drugs) effects the reward circuitry of the brain. The thing is, so does learning the piano.

Totally agree with this. Lots of complex factors govern the path towards addiction and although one's susceptability towards it may be an identifiable physical defect, classifying it as a "disease" is not especially helpful.

Addiction by its nature is something that feeds on reasons not to stop. For an addict, being told that you have a "disease" is just another reason not to stop.

Probably fair to say that it should be "treated as a disease" rather than classified as one.

[RicME85]

15 hours ago, scarboroughwa said:

Some people say it's a disease. They should try taking a walk around the local cancer ward and talk about their disease.

It's a choice, is it not?

 

I take morphine on a daily basis, a lot of morphine, so much it would knock most men out flat but as I have been using opiates of varying strengths since I was 9 I have a high tolerance to them.

Anyway, if I am late taking a dose I quickly go cold turkey and that is only half an hour to an hour late. My brain isnt telling me I need it or want it but my body is. If it wasnt for the levels of pain I have to deal with I would stop tomorrow but my body wouldnt let me.

Am I a drug addict?

[scarboroughwa]

3 minutes ago, RicME85 said:

I take isorphine on a daily basis, a lot of morphiene, so much it would knock most men out flat but as I have been using opiates of varying strengths since I was 9 I have a high tolerance to them.

Anyway, if I am late taking a dose I quickly go cold turkey and that is only half an hour to an hour late. My brain isnt telling me I need it or want it but my body is. If it wasnt for the levels of pain I have to deal with I would stop tomorrow but my body wouldnt let me.

Am I a drug addict?

And as I wandered off topic before, Is some who drinks four cups of coffee a day and won't/can't stop a drug addict?

However, the question Is 'is drug addiction really a disease?' despite what the dsm says, for example.

In It's simplest form It sounds like you take medication for pain relief rather than being an addict Ie, If you took the pain away would you continue to take the medication, once you got through the cold turkey and withdrawal regime thereafter?

I hope you're ok.

[Wolfie]

22 minutes ago, RicME85 said:

I take morphine on a daily basis, a lot of morphine, so much it would knock most men out flat but as I have been using opiates of varying strengths since I was 9 I have a high tolerance to them.

Anyway, if I am late taking a dose I quickly go cold turkey and that is only half an hour to an hour late. My brain isnt telling me I need it or want it but my body is. If it wasnt for the levels of pain I have to deal with I would stop tomorrow but my body wouldnt let me.

Am I a drug addict?

Good point. I would have thought there needs to be a distinction between the physical dependancy of your body to the opiates, where as other addictions (gambling/sex?) may be an emotional dependancy, though I'm sure there is often a degree of both.

 

 

[RicME85]

@scarboroughwa Im not but I manage, not easy when IDS is in charge of welfare. At the grand old age of 30 and I have both my ankles surgically fused, had my left knee replaced at 18 and had my right elbow replaced 5 years ago and am about to have it removed and replaced again in the coming months due to it becoming lose.

Yes I use morphine for chronic pain. I have Haemophilia, its not just bleeding badly after a cut, it actually causes you to bleed into joints and muscles which leaves long term damage. 

I would definitely stop taking opiates if I was to suddenly wake up one day and never have any pain again as there are so many negatives to taking opiates long term, the cold turkey would be hell though. I have gone through detox two or three times in the past when my pain levels reduced post major corrective surgery, it took 3 months to do and was physically draining. 

Im not sure if disease is the right word for drug/alcohol addiction, its a difficult one.

 

@Wolfie There certainly needs to be. I have had experiences with doctors and even with members of dedicated 'pain teams' who have called me an addict because of the amount I use and the symptoms I get. I find the physical/mental battle really hard, knowing you dont actually want to take the drugs for any reason other than to reduce pain but knowing that your body is crying out for more to keep it satiated is a constant struggle.

[scarboroughwa]

15 hours ago, RicME85 said:

@scarboroughwa Im not but I manage, not easy when IDS is in charge of welfare. At the grand old age of 30 and I have both my ankles surgically fused, had my left knee replaced at 18 and had my right elbow replaced 5 years ago and am about to have it removed and replaced again in the coming months due to it becoming lose.

Yes I use morphine for chronic pain. I have Haemophilia, its not just bleeding badly after a cut, it actually causes you to bleed into joints and muscles which leaves long term damage. 

I would definitely stop taking opiates if I was to suddenly wake up one day and never have any pain again as there are so many negatives to taking opiates long term, the cold turkey would be hell though. I have gone through detox two or three times in the past when my pain levels reduced post major corrective surgery, it took 3 months to do and was physically draining. 

Im not sure if disease is the right word for drug/alcohol addiction, its a difficult one.

 

@Wolfie There certainly needs to be. I have had experiences with doctors and even with members of dedicated 'pain teams' who have called me an addict because of the amount I use and the symptoms I get. I find the physical/mental battle really hard, knowing you dont actually want to take the drugs for any reason other than to reduce pain but knowing that your body is crying out for more to keep it satiated is a constant struggle.

That's full on mate. Any Indication what caused the problems. Was It Inherited?

[RicME85]

Its inherited.

 

[scarboroughwa]

1 hour ago, RicME85 said:

Its inherited.

 

Ok mate, look after yourself. If you ever feel the need to talk to someone totally removed from your normal network then please feel free to message me. Don't take the semantics of some of my posts on here as a given. I just like to stimulate with the odd dig to the left of centre sometimes.

[scarboroughwa]

On 16 March 2016 at 11:30, SantosHalper said:

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't clear about that, so I'll try to explain.

I thought that your comments on homosexuality and religion were straying into territory that's not directly relevant here, although I understand your points on both. (I am a hardcore atheist myself.)

You mention coffee, leading up to more serious drugs and ask about people who "cannot, or do not want to" change their behaviour. But that's the crux of the issue. Some do not want to change, and others cannot. You seem to be rather dismissive of the "cannot" side of the argument, i.e. those who cannot give up a drug. 

If I've misunderstood you, then I apologise, but you've said more than once that addiction is not a disease. If so, then that's where we beg to differ. The latest DSM from 2013 says that drug addiction is a disease. Now, I'm not an expert, but if that's what the evidence shows, then I'll go along with that until proven otherwise. That's the nature of science. 

I'll take your word on methylamphetamine abuse. That's an amphetamine, yes? You're right to call me out on this -- there may be not many "poor" users of the drug, and I don't mean to say that only poor people use drugs. As I said in a later post, there seems to be a correlation between high income and high intelligence and the use of certain drugs.

Okay, Scarborough, I think I'm losing the thread of my argument here. Have I answered any of your questions? 

This is such a fascinating and complicated issue. Cheers for bringing it up. But, basically, if you're saying addiction isn't a disease, then I disagree. 

 

Funnily enough, not what we're talking about but here's an example.

http://www.australiannationalreview.com/world-renown-heart-surgeon-speaks-heart-disease/

 

[SantosHalper]

7 hours ago, scarboroughwa said:

Funnily enough, not what we're talking about but here's an example.

http://www.australiannationalreview.com/world-renown-heart-surgeon-speaks-heart-disease/

 

An example of what exactly? Of badly written ********? 

[scarboroughwa]

On 18 March 2016 at 18:25, SantosHalper said:

An example of what exactly? Of badly written ********? 

And another example of widely spread beliefs being incorrect:

Bullying; perpetrated by kids because they have been bullied themselves.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

On 16 March 2016 at 15:23, RicME85 said:

@scarboroughwa Im not but I manage, not easy when IDS is in charge of welfare. 

 

Happy now?

[RicME85]

Haha, if only it actually fixes things but I doubt it, despite what he is saying its got to be about Brexit and wanting the leadership again

[StockholmRam]

On 15 Mar 2016 at 23:38, wixman1884 said:

Choice does not determine whether something is a disease. Heart disease, diabetes and some forms of cancer involve personal choices like diet, exercise, sun exposure, etc. A disease is what happens in the body as a result of those choices.

I have diabetes mate and can assure you that in no way is it down to or ever involved personal choice, bad diet, bad living, lack of exercise... 

[Guest]

On 15 March 2016 at 22:38, wixman1884 said:

Choice does not determine whether something is a disease. Heart disease, diabetes and some forms of cancer involve personal choices like diet, exercise, sun exposure, etc. A disease is what happens in the body as a result of those choices.

No,no and no!  Lifestyle choice forms but a small part of cause of disease. Trust me I really do know

[wixman1884]

1 hour ago, StockholmRam said:

I have diabetes mate and can assure you that in no way is it down to or ever involved personal choice, bad diet, bad living, lack of exercise... 

 

1 hour ago, Strange yearnings said:

No,no and no!  Lifestyle choice forms but a small part of cause of disease. Trust me I really do know

The original post was saying that drug addiction can't be classified as a disease because personal choice plays a role. My argument was that this doesn't make it not a disease - ie. lung cancer is still a disease whether or not the patient smokes. 

I'm not saying that people solely get these diseases due to bad choices, my point was that personal choices play a role in many diseases and it doesn't make them any less of a disease.

 

[wixman1884]

2 hours ago, StockholmRam said:

I have diabetes mate and can assure you that in no way is it down to or ever involved personal choice, bad diet, bad living, lack of exercise... 

Genetics and lifestyle are 2 of the leading causes of type 2 diabetes. That seems to be a widely reported fact. That's certainly doesn't imply that everyone that suffers from diabetes does so due to poor lifestyle choices. 

[wixman1884]

2 hours ago, StockholmRam said:

I have diabetes mate and can assure you that in no way is it down to or ever involved personal choice, bad diet, bad living, lack of exercise... 

 

1 hour ago, Strange yearnings said:

No,no and no!  Lifestyle choice forms but a small part of cause of disease. Trust me I really do know

My original post was poorly worded,  and I'm sorry if it caused offense. 

[Rev]

I've been addicted to this forum since joining, but I'm coming to believe that Drugs would be more sensible and fulfilling in the long run.

[StockholmRam]

19 minutes ago, wixman1884 said:

 

My original post was poorly worded,  and I'm sorry if it caused offense. 

No worries mate. I just get a bit tired of hearing or reading how we type 2s are " self inflicted" burdens... I'm sure there are many that could indeed be like that but in my case and many others it certainly is not.