We have no good wingers

[We'll be back in 81]

Camara has looked like a decent winger, goes past the full back and gets crosses in but we have not seen much of him.

[Mostyn6]

people need to make their minds up. First we don't want the formation that requires wingers, then all of a sudden, we want wingers!

Whingers more like. We have some great ones.

[G-Ram]

I still think Tom Ince is class. Came on today played a couple of nice little through balls and linked up well. Whenever he gets the ball i always think there is a chance he will do something even if ince is having an off day id rather he played.

Yeah he's a bit of a luxury at times but i think he's also a player that can create something out of nothing. The type that can do naff all for 89 mins then score a goal.

Nobody really honestly knows if camara is decent. But reckon if he was he's be starting 

Russell works hard just runs into trouble. Reminds me of a poor mans kris commons. Plays rubbish for 5-6 games then has a stormer & looks a world beater. Just ashame at the moment he's played rubbish for about 15 games. Maybe needs some time out to get his act together 

still think johnsons more of a bruiser and a central midfield player rather than a 'winger' he's more of the type to spray wayward balls than beat a man 

Wiemann- just cant take to him seems to lose control of the ball when he's running with it at his own feet. 

One thing we miss is under mclaren we would invite pressure on ourselves then break and counter with pace at the moment we dont seem to do that we had opportunities to break today but couldn't 

talking about wingers though i think we went off it last season when rodgers recalled ibe then the injuries hit and we collapsed spectacularly. Mr klopp can we have ibe back please ?  

[Alph]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

He drives forward which gains us position. He often wins free kicks and penalties. He pops up with the occasional goal and assist. He tracks back very well and protects the full back, allowing said player to be more adventurous. He fights for 50/50s and is OK in the air for a smaller player. He also appear popular amongst the players and is unlikely to be one of those who upset the dressing room atmosphere. Russell is very far from perfect, but he certainly is the best we've got at present.

Russell is far more effective than Ince. Ince actively runs away from any headers. He refuses to even contemplate making a challenge. His tracking back is appalling, which exposes the full back and ultimately makes us unbalanced. He does not kick the ball with his right foot which makes him so predictable. He has terrible vision and never spots a teammate in space. His one asset is a curling shot from the right hand corner of the box, which just about makes him of professional standard. Without that, he'd be a poor selection for Borrowash Victoria. Although it's hard to be certain from the outside, he also appears to have a poor attitude and be unpopular with the other players.

 

He runs drives forward and achieves nothing. Thorne gains more ground than him with a decent pass. Keogh too. Russell either loses possession by running into trouble, delivers a terrible pass or falls over or he smashes a cross to where any CB worth a penny should be. All because he runs too fast to see what's around him. Because his head is down. His control is terrible. 

The assist stat means nothing as that's just the last bloke to touch the ball. Some of the most creative players in world football (Silva for example) have few assists. He doesn't score many at all. 

Yeah he tracks back and is an irritation for opponents. He's good at that because he's good at running. As is my dog who has waaaaay more energy than Russell. And he's a nice bloke who's effort can't be faulted.

I've been a bit harsh here but he's not better than Ince at football. He scores less, creates less. He just has better body language

[CornwallRam]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He runs drives forward and achieves nothing. Thorne gains more ground than him with a decent pass. Keogh too. Russell either loses possession by running into trouble, delivers a terrible pass or falls over or he smashes a cross to where any CB worth a penny should be. All because he runs too fast to see what's around him. Because his head is down. His control is terrible. 

The assist stat means nothing as that's just the last bloke to touch the ball. Some of the most creative players in world football (Silva for example) have few assists. He doesn't score many at all. 

Yeah he tracks back and is an irritation for opponents. He's good at that because he's good at running. As is my dog who has waaaaay more energy than Russell. And he's a nice bloke who's effort can't be faulted.

I've been a bit harsh here but he's not better than Ince at football. He scores less, creates less. He just has better body language

He is - Ince is all show and achieves absolutely nothing apart from unbalancing the team

[G-Ram]

11 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

He is - Ince is all show and achieves absolutely nothing apart from unbalancing the team

Scored 11 goals in 18 games last season... Hardly achiving nothing. 

I thought he played a couple of nice balls today and gets himself in goal scoring positions 

[Alph]

8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

He is - Ince is all show and achieves absolutely nothing apart from unbalancing the team

I bet Ince has nearly scored as many goals for Derby as Russell in half the games?

He's done plenty of damage down that flank with Cyrus. Even today he created more than Russell.

Not a massive fan of Ince either. Too selfish and fussy. But I don't mind him.

I know I'm being harsh on Russell. It's because I can stand a crap player or a good player out of form and trying ambitious stuff that keeps going wrong. 

Makes me furious though seeing 10yrd passes fall short, getting caught flat footed and not seeing players wide open because a players got his head down.

I don't like players based on pace or energy tbh. Great if it comes with the package but I hate it when players have it as their best attribute. Usually they just hurry up and do nothing

[jagerbob]

Par of the problem is Derby dont play with wingers at all.

As has been said, Camera is the only one at the club, but doesnt seem to get any game time.

Wingers belong in a 4-4-2 who stay out wide and get crosses in, or at least take men on by dribbling.

Derby play with a 4-3-3 where the wide forwards actually come inside to try link up with central midfielders and Martin, and the full backs provide the real width.

In recent years :

Ibe might have been a winger, jamie Ward played a bit like a winger by prefering to hug the touch line.

But dawkins, russell, bamford, ince, weimann, blackman, are not wingers!

[Bris Vegas]

Dawkins was quality. His ball retention was just great to watch, and he linked up play superbly.

Russell is terrible. Ince has decent footwork and can pick a pass, but he's being hindered by the fact our midfield usually sits far too deep. You want him in space, in one vs one situations. Not on the halfway line.

Weimann, Johnson and Blackman just aren't wingers at all. No point even discussing them.

Camara, from the little I've seen of him, looks totally powderpuff and quite naive. One moment against United he just stood there and waited for the ball to come to him, which was then intercepted. It was poor.

 

[barnsley ram]

just remind me didnt ince come on and actually have  some shots on target one just missing going in at far post how many shots apart from a free kick did the other forwards, have again we dominated the play with very little end product they had four shots but created chances in front of goal we are crying out fot a pacey centre forward

[jagerbob]

7 minutes ago, barnsley ram said:

just remind me didnt ince come on and actually have  some shots on target one just missing going in at far post how many shots apart from a free kick did the other forwards, have again we dominated the play with very little end product they had four shots but created chances in front of goal we are crying out fot a pacey centre forward

Only if we go more direct, which if i remember rightly, the team and wassall got hounded for playing this way against MK. The problem with Mel, the fans and this derby way of possession based football, is if we try change it and make it direct, if we dont score everyone thinks its a terrible idea. Im guessing if we started to play like Burnley and we didnt win every match then the fans would call us hopeless, no cohesion etc etc

[eddie]

What good would wingers be to our side at the moment?

Christie in particular is worse with crosses than Dracula, but that's irrelevant too, because at the moment we haven't got a player either capable or willing to try to get on the end of one.

The Memsahib said "Martin's put on weight" today. I'm not disagreeing with her.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, eddie said:

What good would wingers be to our side at the moment?

Christie in particular is worse with crosses than Dracula, but that's irrelevant too, because at the moment we haven't got a player either capable or willing to try to get on the end of one.

The Memsahib said "Martin's put on weight" today. I'm not disagreeing with her.

Yep. Definitely Chunky and clunky

[CWC1983]

The only time we play wingers is when the team is laid out on paper. When was the last time our wingers took the full back on and effectively crossed a decent ball? 

Instead, ince, russell, weiman, blackman, johnson get the ball and either come inside into traffic or play it backwards which invariably ends up with the ball at carsons feet..... 

All of the above also seem to think a wingers game is to come short and they never make runs down the line to stretch the opposition.  

Just play Camera and lets see what he can do. Stick Blackman up front with Bryson making runs into the box. 

Our wingers this season are called christie and olsen and by the end of the game they are breathing out of their arse. Hence the late goals conceded. 

 

 

 

[ritamony]

Ince, Chirs Martin and Marcus Olsson are better then others