Warren Hobhead Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 11 minutes ago, Papahet said: I've always thought pairing Thorne and Johnson as the CM would work, whilst playing Butterfield more advanced. Both are strong powerful players, enjoy a long ranger, have plenty of energy to get back and I don't see why it wouldn't work. Thorne should be at the edge of that box as much as possible. Thorne johnson Butterfield Ince Martin Weimann instead of the usual Thorne Johnson Butterfield Ince Martin Weimann They're set up like that because in my opinion, from what I've seen so far, they're also expected to do the hard yards defensively. The graft that you'll not get out of others. The wingers defensive responsibilities. And to cover the runs of Christie/Forsyth(Warnock). I could be wrong. But I've seen every game this season (I'm not well in my mind) and it looks blatant, especially when Ince is playing. BJ and JB are more cautious and definitely deeper in such games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Above all i think we're missing Bryson - but not the Bryson of last season where he was played out of position far too often. At the moment, the midfield tends to be too static, passing is laboured giving the opposition ample time to drop deeper and provide plenty of cover to their back four. Bryson gives the team energy and rarely holds onto the ball for long - passing quickly and then moving forward into space. Also as I've said before, he reads Martin far better than anyone else in the squad. Unfortunately his injury doesn't sound as though it's going to heal anytime soon and I can't think of anyone else in the current squad to play that role so maybe a loan in January could be the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 IMO there's not dilemma, not while we are in Championship... they are good enough for most of the opponents but struggle against better teams with better pressing. When Hughes gets fit, he makes our midfield even better. He is one of those rare players who makes others around him better too. Better Better.. I like how the word sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 22 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Above all i think we're missing Bryson - but not the Bryson of last season where he was played out of position far too often. At the moment, the midfield tends to be too static, passing is laboured giving the opposition ample time to drop deeper and provide plenty of cover to their back four. Bryson gives the team energy and rarely holds onto the ball for long - passing quickly and then moving forward into space. Also as I've said before, he reads Martin far better than anyone else in the squad. Unfortunately his injury doesn't sound as though it's going to heal anytime soon and I can't think of anyone else in the current squad to play that role so maybe a loan in January could be the answer? 13/14 Bryson would be ideal now, I agree. His forward running, often going beyond the striker added an extra dimension to our team and was one of the key factors in our success that season. His link up play with Martin also tended to make Martin a better player simply by bringing him into the game more. Martin has been isolated in recent games, his hold up play has generally been good but there's no one running beyond him so he's forced to play as a target man. He's not got the pace to turn and take defenders on so he's often forced to play it back into midfield, not the one touch sideways passes we've seen before which aided quick build up play and was one of the reasons we were so prolific in 13/14. For this reason, I would start Martin with a 2nd striker against Bristol, simply because having a man in front of him will allow Martin to drop deeper and also should give him more space with defenders occupied with the other striker playing off the last man. This should increase Martin's influence on the game and change the shape of our team also, making us harder to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 55 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said: They're set up like that because in my opinion, from what I've seen so far, they're also expected to do the hard yards defensively. The graft that you'll not get out of others. The wingers defensive responsibilities. And to cover the runs of Christie/Forsyth(Warnock). I could be wrong. But I've seen every game this season (I'm not well in my mind) and it looks blatant, especially when Ince is playing. BJ and JB are more cautious and definitely deeper in such games. Spot on yesterday, Johnson was level with Thorne, Butterfield maybe 10 yds in front of them. Hendrick's at his best in the oppositions half, moving forward, offers next to nothing imo defensively. I'd stick with Butterfield at the moment, just get him in a position where he's always close to Martin and can impact the game more, when he comes deeper he's neat and tidy, but never looks like hurting the opposition, unlike Hull or Huddersfield where he seemed 20 yds further up when attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 8 minutes ago, reveldevil said: Spot on yesterday, Johnson was level with Thorne, Butterfield maybe 10 yds in front of them. Hendrick's at his best in the oppositions half, moving forward, offers next to nothing imo defensively. I'd stick with Butterfield at the moment, just get him in a position where he's always close to Martin and can impact the game more, when he comes deeper he's neat and tidy, but never looks like hurting the opposition, unlike Hull or Huddersfield where he seemed 20 yds further up when attacking. Heatmaps from yesterdays game tells differently. Thorne was deeper, Butterfield on the right but lower than Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 2 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Heatmaps from yesterdays game tells differently. Thorne was deeper, Butterfield on the right but lower than Johnson. I'll trust my own eyes, almost every time we played out from the back, Thorne had Johnson level with him, obviously BJ and JB got further forward when attacking than Thorne. Also didn't think that sat on Thorne that much at all, seemed they were happy enough to let him have the ball but closed off all his options for a pass, dragging Johnson and Butterfield back to give options. Overall I thought it was a good game between 2 good teams, with the correct result, the one thing I think we're missing is PACE. Genuine speed to turn a defence and get it facing the wrong way, when our passing and movement are quick and accurate it's less noticable, but occasions like yesterday and last Sunday showed how useful a genuinely quick midfielder/forward could be. Sometimes feels like teams are happy to sit back and let us knock it around in front of them, knowing all the danger is in front of them and they won't be turned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mills Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 4 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Oddly, there seems a general lack of confidence that means we're moving the ball far too slowly (because players want to concentrate on completing the pass). This allows our opponents to be righ on top of us, trying to hussle us out of possession. Then, also due to some deep fear of losing possession, our first thought is often to turn backwards and play the ball sideways. Again, because our opponents know this is what we are going to do it makes it very easy for them to press against us and causes us to lose the ball in dangerous areas. We have to move it more quickly and the first thought should be how to hurt the opposition. If that can't be done, then we can turn back and keep the ball. Get on the front foot. Carry the ball forward at pace. Look for Martin early and if he's free get the ball into him and run past him. Back yourself to shoot if the chance opens up. I do feel we are missing Hendrick's desire and drive to get forward, but the other midfielders obviously give us different things. But we need to be more attack-minded so I would bring Hendrick back in to the starting lineup for Brizzle. To be honest I don't think thats odd. Half the crowd get on the players backs for passing it backwards let alone misplacing a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 It was my first home game for some time. Totally agree about pace and movement. I'm not sure how we introduce that though without changing the system and that is working pretty well. Someone quick [with the appropriate level of skill] through the middle would be a bonus if we could find the right player. I could see why we've been linked with Wilson at times. Not the finished article but he'll cause some damage to opposition defenders. Two decent teams, decent game. Shame about the weather...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyram Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 7 hours ago, Srg said: They? Aye like doctors , physios etc most big clubs have them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 3 hours ago, Dimmu said: Heatmaps from yesterdays game tells differently. Thorne was deeper, Butterfield on the right but lower than Johnson. Indeed. For those who don't use whoscored, the average Rams player positions were As is normal, Ince was actually our furthest forward player. Johnson usually plays very much more closely to Thorne, but yesterday was more advanced on the left, occupying almost exactly the same space as Weimann/Russell (Weimann never plays very far wide). Playing at home it's very rare for us to have so few (5) players averaging their positions in the opposition's half. Normally it would be 7 or 8 with both full backs pushed much further on and Thorne often over the halfway line. 2 hours ago, Chris Mills said: To be honest I don't think thats odd. Half the crowd get on the players backs for passing it backwards let alone misplacing a pass. Odd because I'd expect the players to be exuding more confidence due to their high league position and habit of winning games. I do understand the frustration of the fans when our lack of positivity and variety creates problems for ourselves, but realize it doesn't help the players to hear it. But the players could help themselves by being more on the front foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 For Tuesday I would like to see a bit of shake up to freshen things up and give us a different dimension , would love to see us go 442 attacking against Bristol Christie keough shackle warlock ,,,, Thorne Johnston Russell ince ,,,, bent wiemen , ,,,, real pace through the middle up front ,, start the game at real tempo and get at them , not done to punish any players form just another string to our bow and rest a few , the bench would be really strong and web can revert if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorksopRam Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'd still like to see Martin and Bent play together a bit more. There's no better support for him in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'd drop Martin in exchange for the pace Bent can bring. We need urgency in our game, especially at home. Width and pace, width and pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just got a nagging feeling that I would like to see the pace of wiemen and bent through the middle, ince trickery and Russell direct running all put together in an attack minded side ,, don't think sides would be so keen to press us in numbers , gives thorn time to spray passes or come out and then any combo of butterfield Johnston or will when fit to be playmakers also, no reflection on Martin just another set of problems we could pose for sides who think they have worked us out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.