ramsbottom Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 10 hours ago, super rams said: Not too sure where you read that the post was about picking up 7 pts from 3 games? As it is clear it is not, maybe you can enlighten us all on how a 4-3-3 system works? Maybe enlighten us how we get from defence to a attacking formation, maybe enlighten us how the midfield works to stop Martin being isolated, maybe enlighten us why all the outfield players from GT upwards could not perform on not only against Wednesday, but 60 mins of the Hull game, the Forest game, these are recent games. As I pointed out before, apart from the Diame & Maloney chances either side of the first half what genuine chances did Hull create??? 21 shots and only 2 were on target, Hull may have had the lion's share of the possession but they couldn't do anything with it because we pressed them in the right places and set ourselves up to stop them. Coincidentally, we did exactly what your praising Wednesday for doing to us on Sunday. Double standards... 46 minutes ago, super rams said: Have you read the opening post? Not a mention of the word 'Clement', but when somebody starts a thread with opinions you don't like, your Blinkers come on and personal attacks start all of which are done to hide the fact that you cannot answer the original post. You cannot hide from the fact the Sheffield Wednesday's game plan worked, they pressed up high up the field which meant they took GT out of the game - which in turn kept our midfield sitting deep - which in turn isolated Martin. It was not our own game plan - Its not as straight forward as I have just explained that but I had to make it simple so you can understand what went on - just in case you were watching.... But there again if you are reading this with your own blinkers on - you probably will not understand a word I have said. I little tip for you, maybe you should read the match day thread page 12 last Friday @ 17.52 - If you're criticising the way the team plays then in turn your criticising the people responsible for how they play, the manager. And you've been doing it for a considerable amount of time, even when we've won games ie Hull. That's why this thread has reached 12 pages because yourself and others insist on banging on the same drum over, and over, and over, and over despite all evidence to the contrary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 31 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: As I pointed out before, apart from the Diame & Maloney chances either side of the first half what genuine chances did Hull create??? 21 shots and only 2 were on target, Hull may have had the lion's share of the possession but they couldn't do anything with it because we pressed them in the right places and set ourselves up to stop them. Coincidentally, we did exactly what your praising Wednesday for doing to us on Sunday. Double standards... If you're criticising the way the team plays then in turn your criticising the people responsible for how they play, the manager. And you've been doing it for a considerable amount of time, even when we've won games ie Hull. That's why this thread has reached 12 pages because yourself and others insist on banging on the same drum over, and over, and over, and over despite all evidence to the contrary Oh right we dominated the Hull game, right OK, perhaps all the stats are wrong then! Lets get this one thing right, we played very well for 30 odd minutes and pressesd Hull and attacked them- once Bruce worked out we dominated the midfield he went 4-4-2 to bolster their midfield and that allowed them to press us and for the next 60 mins we defended - that is why all the stats sure how much dominance they had. We did not at any time change our formation to defend, we defended we simply because could not continue to play the same way we did in the first 30 odd mins for the remainder of the game because of the way Hull were playing. - Coincidentally, we did exactly what your praising Wednesday for doing to us on Sunday. Double standards... No, we did not - it is the other way around! Both Hull [from 30 odd minutes] pressed us for the remainder of the game, - Wednesday pressed us from the 1st miute of the game and nullified our game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm going back to ignoring people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBustler1884 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 On 12/8/2015 at 08:54, Mountain Ram said: I'm guessing you'd prefer the 1884 group to be handing out pitchforks and burning torches, rather than flags, for the Brighton match?? H&S would have a field day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 8 minutes ago, super rams said: Oh right we dominated the Hull game, right OK, perhaps all the stats are wrong then! Lets get this one thing right, we played very well for 30 odd minutes and pressesd Hull and attacked them- once Bruce worked out we dominated the midfield he went 4-4-2 to bolster their midfield and that allowed them to press us and for the next 60 mins we defended - that is why all the stats sure how much dominance they had. We did not at any time change our formation to defend, we defended we simply because could not continue to play the same way we did in the first 30 odd mins for the remainder of the game because of the way Hull were playing. - Coincidentally, we did exactly what your praising Wednesday for doing to us on Sunday. Double standards... No, we did not - it is the other way around! Both Hull [from 30 odd minutes] pressed us for the remainder of the game, - Wednesday pressed us from the 1st miute of the game and nullified our game! I never said we dominated the Hull game, I stated we had a plan, and stuck to it. After the second goal there was no need to go steaming up field every chance we got because we were comfortable soaking up their pressure. For the first time in a long time, I was confident we'd see the game out. If Schteve had tried that last season we'd have lost the game, but PC has made us a lot more solid and confident to sit in and defend properly, as a team. I cannot belive you're criticising what a lot of people would call the perfect away performance. If it was Arsenal beating Man City on MOTD to go top Shearer, Murphy, Lineaker and the rest of them would've been spunking praise all over Wenger. The point is, other teams have ways of stopping the other team from winning, as do we. Your opinion that other teams only get a result out of us due to our own negative and predictable tactics are arrogant. With that point of view you're more suited to supporting those clowns at the other end of Sir Brian Clough Way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I quite like how Clement talks about players like Thorne and Ince. He has said that neither are used to be so tightly marked and they have to learn solutions around it, its how they will develop as they are still young players. Yet as usual people don't want that and say we should HOOF it at the first sign it isn't working. instead even though our clubs whole philosophy is to pass the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 31 minutes ago, super rams said: Oh right we dominated the Hull game, right OK, perhaps all the stats are wrong then! Lets get this one thing right, we played very well for 30 odd minutes and pressesd Hull and attacked them- once Bruce worked out we dominated the midfield he went 4-4-2 to bolster their midfield and that allowed them to press us and for the next 60 mins we defended - that is why all the stats sure how much dominance they had. We did not at any time change our formation to defend, we defended we simply because could not continue to play the same way we did in the first 30 odd mins for the remainder of the game because of the way Hull were playing. - Coincidentally, we did exactly what your praising Wednesday for doing to us on Sunday. Double standards... No, we did not - it is the other way around! Both Hull [from 30 odd minutes] pressed us for the remainder of the game, - Wednesday pressed us from the 1st miute of the game and nullified our game! But both teams couldn't score because of our very good defensive play. We weren't lucky we were very good defensively. I think the problem is that you are not accepting what good defensive play looks like. You are assuming if we are not dominant in possession we are going to lose. Do you think maybe you are witnessing the infamous "Plan B" in action? You say Steve Bruce worked us out, I say we contained them after achieving a two goal lead. I would suggest you get the gung-ho approach of last season out of your mind and accept that this season we are a different beast. We will steamroller some teams others we may be a lot more cautious against. We have the best defence in the division so far and the sixth best attack. Remember the old adage, win if possible but if you cant win don't lose. We have done that pretty well this season. All credit to Paul Clement. Played 19 Won 10 drawn 7 lost 2. What do you suggest we do differently to improve things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 52 minutes ago, eddie said: I'm going back to ignoring people. Same here I think and it'll be a first for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 57 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I never said we dominated the Hull game, I stated we had a plan, and stuck to it. After the second goal there was no need to go steaming up field every chance we got because we were comfortable soaking up their pressure. For the first time in a long time, I was confident we'd see the game out. If Schteve had tried that last season we'd have lost the game, but PC has made us a lot more solid and confident to sit in and defend properly, as a team. I cannot belive you're criticising what a lot of people would call the perfect away performance. If it was Arsenal beating Man City on MOTD to go top Shearer, Murphy, Lineaker and the rest of them would've been spunking praise all over Wenger. The point is, other teams have ways of stopping the other team from winning, as do we. Your opinion that other teams only get a result out of us due to our own negative and predictable tactics are arrogant. With that point of view you're more suited to supporting those clowns at the other end of Sir Brian Clough Way... Where have I said.........that other teams only get a result out of us due to our own negative and predictable tactics are arrogant. Read the first post again ........the above statement is complete nonsense and again complete made up to suite you because you will not accept how we played against Wednesday was down to Wednesday and not us. They pressed ,took GT out of the game and stopped us playing from the back, out muscled in in midfield and left Martin isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 3 hours ago, super rams said: Have you read the opening post? Not a mention of the word 'Clement', but when somebody starts a thread with opinions you don't like, your Blinkers come on and personal attacks start all of which are done to hide the fact that you cannot answer the original post. You cannot hide from the fact the Sheffield Wednesday's game plan worked, they pressed up high up the field which meant they took GT out of the game - which in turn kept our midfield sitting deep - which in turn isolated Martin. It was not our own game plan - Its not as straight forward as I have just explained that but I had to make it simple so you can understand what went on - just in case you were watching.... But there again if you are reading this with your own blinkers on - you probably will not understand a word I have said. I little tip for you, maybe you should read the match day thread page 12 last Friday @ 17.52 - So their game plan was to just shoot from range and create no real opportunities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 10 minutes ago, super rams said: Where have I said.........that other teams only get a result out of us due to our own negative and predictable tactics are arrogant. Read the first post again ........the above statement is complete nonsense and again complete made up to suite you because you will not accept how we played against Wednesday was down to Wednesday and not us. They pressed ,took GT out of the game and stopped us playing from the back, out muscled in in midfield and left Martin isolated. Every team knows how we play but choose different methods to counter it. Some of them get it wrong (HULL), some get it right (WEDS). But changing personnel/tactics constantly, while making us more unpredictable, will only distablise our own performances and in turn results. You may get away with it for the next game, but at that game will be scouts from our next three opponents who will all make notes about the current tactics and how to counter it. So for the next game, you're back to square one... At the end of the day, until we haven't won in 5 games, nothing is broke and therefore doesn't need fixing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 4 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: So their game plan was to just shoot from range and create no real opportunities? Nope, their game plan was to prevent a better team from playing there stuff - and hopefully get something from the game -their coach played for it. Its a dangerous tactic to do especially if the opponents are a footballing side and can counter your pressing game plan -unfortunately we didn't do it- they stopped us playing and I think that was their plan from the start. But with all their pressing they couldn't really break down our defence.- and for most parts we were comfortable, but it still doesn't hide the fact -once GT was marked out of the game we had no alternative plan to get at Wednesday and play our footie. There is another thread saying Martin is poor etc, - but the reality is that Martin has been isolated in most matches since the Wolves game and its not his fault, its the tactics of the opposition further down the field that as an impact on why Martin is now often isolated. 4-3-3 is great when teams sit off us and we are allowed time on the ball and in turn we can play good attacking football [we are not talking Mac style] from the back, this is why GT is so important to our style of play. But the problem arises when teams press us and play 4-4-2, we become out numbered in midfield and that in turn keeps are midfielders sitting deeper which then isolates Martin. When we do then get the ball and try to pick out Martin [because he is isolated and with usually 2 CB's on him] he then struggles to either hold on to the ball or when he does hold the ball up there is nobody from midfield close to him so his flick on etc just don't work. We do need to mix it up occasionally when we are being pressed so we have an outlet in Martin and Bent...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 10 minutes ago, super rams said: Nope, their game plan was to prevent a better team from playing there stuff - and hopefully get something from the game -their coach played for it. Its a dangerous tactic to do especially if the opponents are a footballing side and can counter your pressing game plan -unfortunately we didn't do it- they stopped us playing and I think that was their plan from the start. But with all their pressing they couldn't really break down our defence.- and for most parts we were comfortable, but it still doesn't hide the fact -once GT was marked out of the game we had no alternative plan to get at Wednesday and play our footie. There is another thread saying Martin is poor etc, - but the reality is that Martin has been isolated in most matches since the Wolves game and its not his fault, its the tactics of the opposition further down the field that as an impact on why Martin is now often isolated. 4-3-3 is great when teams sit off us and we are allowed time on the ball and in turn we can play good attacking football [we are not talking Mac style] from the back, this is why GT is so important to our style of play. But the problem arises when teams press us and play 4-4-2, we become out numbered in midfield and that in turn keeps are midfielders sitting deeper which then isolates Martin. When we do then get the ball and try to pick out Martin [because he is isolated and with usually 2 CB's on him] he then struggles to either hold on to the ball or when he does hold the ball up there is nobody from midfield close to him so his flick on etc just don't work. We do need to mix it up occasionally when we are being pressed so we have an outlet in Martin and Bent...... I think we're fine. Like Ramsbottom said, we should start to worry when we're on a 5 or 6 game winless run, not after 1 loss in 14 games. I doubt Manchester City are suddenly going to change their whole game plan after Stoke had 'worked them out,' or Liverpool after Newcastle beat them. Teams who play us will always have an idea of how we'll play, pass out from the back, let Thorne dictate the game and let the wingbacks bomb on etc. Changing our tactics because of an iffy performance against Wednesday would cause more problems than it would solve in my opinion. What we really need to change is the influence our wingers are having on games. Both Ince and Russell are currently more of a hindrance to the team than a help and we really need them to up their game so we pose more of a thread up front. Last season Ince had the confidence to take players on and shoot on sight and at the start of this season Russell was putting in some brilliant performances. We need to get them back to their best so we aren't relying on Martin (who's also been a little off lately), Weimann and long shots from Butterfield/Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW37 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Just think some days the flicks, through balls, deflections, decisions go your way and others they dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't think we'll win again this season. It's been a nice lucky little run. But everyone knows what we're about now. Another 10 pts should see us safe from relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 This thread reminds me of three games into the season when Harbourram called Clement a ****. There are some bizarre people out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Have we become too predictable... Yes. We've only lost one game in 14 is it? thats so boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 57 minutes ago, Ramarena said: This thread reminds me of three games into the season when Harbourram called Clement a ****. There are some bizarre people out there. You know, I find myself disagreeing with curtains a lot, with super rams even more, but harbourram on the matchday thread definitely takes the cake. But the former two at least clearly have a different perspective to mine. I've come to the conclusion harbourram has to be trolling, all he does is insult Clement and the players for the duration of a match (unless we look like we're going to win, at which point he leaves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I think I get more frustrated at curtains posts than actually losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.