Birmingham City v Derby County

[VulcanRam]

He just seems really unlucky, the only place he's made a consistent impact was the MLS, so far at Derby he's got going only to be halted by injury, not being around for pre-season has now hampered him too.

He's never really established himself anywhere other than San Jose though, sometimes in this league it's the impression of being busy, rather than being neat and tidy that grabs the attention of the manager.

or maybe that's just his level.

Depends what you want at this level: a Russell, who is not as technically gifted and makes more mistakes but is passionate, quick, direct, can make an impact and scores goals, or a Dawkins who is more technically gifted, better at retaining possession but who plays safe football and rarely takes responsibility for trying to make a difference.

[VulcanRam]

I think I am being harsh then I watch it again and I can't help but think he should be a step or 2 to his left. He made a great effort to get there, and almost did, but like I have said his starting position is wrong.

If he was a step or two to his left, he would most likely have not got to the ball had it remained on its original course.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[TimRam]

Great performance in the 2nd half. Not sure what Clement said to them at half time but it worked!

[VulcanRam]

Just a quick one on Russell's finish - anyone else think he got really luck with it?

He had options to square it for a tap-in, he went for goal and literally smashed it straight at their GK. If their GK hadn't dived out the way to anticpate it, it would have just hit him and bounced out.

I think Russell's end product is dreadul at times which is a shame because he clearly has talent in other areas. His energy, running, movement etc. was all superb.

Give me the choice of Theo Robinson and Johnny Russell going through one-on-one with the GK and I'd choose the former every time. 

 

So instead of scoring he should give up the chance and pass so that we might not score? good logic.

did you actually not notice in the first half we were trying to walk the ball in and failed, yet you think we should have continued to do that instead of taking on more shots?

If you look at the way Russell connects with the ball he actually digs underneath it with his foot to ensure it goes high and above the crouching keeper - totally unfair to say he just smashed it.

I can guarantee you 100% if he had crossed in that situation when clean through on goal and we hadn't scored, you would NOT have been patting him on the back and saying 'good ball Johnny'. 

It was a good move, great run and well taken goal. I don't understand why you want to find fault with it.

 

[Dimmu]

Rather generous marks for the defence. They had 15 shots!

Donaldson bossed us in the air. Why Shackell didn't make him his man is beyond me.

Forsyth did well against Gray. Christie played okay and I couldn't understand why Shotton was brought on unless Christie was injured. We lost fluency down the right.

Bent and Martin in the same team doesn't work. Far better to have Dawkins in to keep the momentum going forward. 

Russell before his goal was predictable and frustrating. After it he looked the part. I am sure the rest of the forwards will also be okay once they find the net a few more times.

No need to panic. We look okay.

Keogh was marking him with Shackell covering. Clearly told to do so.

[Dimmu]

Just a quick one on Russell's finish - anyone else think he got really luck with it?

He had options to square it for a tap-in, he went for goal and literally smashed it straight at their GK. If their GK hadn't dived out the way to anticpate it, it would have just hit him and bounced out.

I think Russell's end product is dreadul at times which is a shame because he clearly has talent in other areas. His energy, running, movement etc. was all superb.

Give me the choice of Theo Robinson and Johnny Russell going through one-on-one with the GK and I'd choose the former every time. 

 

Lucky? No.

First touch was about as good as it could've been. And the shot was one of the two good options available.

[Anag Ram]

Keogh was marking him with Shackell covering. Clearly told to do so.

That may be so, but Donaldson's threat is in the air and Shackell is far better equipped to deal with that threat. We were lucky not to concede in that first 20 minutes. Keogh always gets bossed by big centre forwards. His strength is on the ground.

[Alph]

@rynny I think the goal looks worse the more you look at it. When it happened and on the first replay I thought there was nothing he could do. The more you see the goal and take in the distance then it starts to look like Carson could have done more. That's clearly what Baird was saying.  He was pointing to where the shot came from. It was miles out wasn't it. 

But there's one angle where you can see that Carson loses sight of the ball behind Shackell. At full speed with the big deflection and then being unsighted for a moment... 

Wouldn't call them scoring lucky though. We got lucky with a couple of their misses didn't we? The Donaldson chances where Christie goes up behind him for a header in the 1st half and then when he goes from watching him to completely forgetting him in the second. Pooh your pants moment that second one. Could have been 2-0 and then it was 1-1 moments later

[Premierrams1884]

Just a quick one on Russell's finish - anyone else think he got really luck with it?

He had options to square it for a tap-in, he went for goal and literally smashed it straight at their GK. If their GK hadn't dived out the way to anticpate it, it would have just hit him and bounced out.

I think Russell's end product is dreadul at times which is a shame because he clearly has talent in other areas. His energy, running, movement etc. was all superb.

Give me the choice of Theo Robinson and Johnny Russell going through one-on-one with the GK and I'd choose the former every time. 

 

how can anybody question johnny russell he was easily derby best attacker last night and he works back all the time did a lot more then ince weimann (when he came on) Martin and bent 

[Srg]

how can anybody question johnny russell he was easily derby best attacker last night and he works back all the time did a lot more then ince weimann (when he came on) Martin and bent 

ah, I see you have a case of Russell Blindness. 

[rynny]

If he was a step or two to his left, he would most likely have not got to the ball had it remained on its original course.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If he gets beat at the far post it isn't as bad as getting beat at his near post. If the shot hadn't have took the deflection and went in the same place he wouldn't got to it still, it wasn't a good shot, it wasn't powerful. He could have done better, with better positioning.

[rynny]

@rynny I think the goal looks worse the more you look at it. When it happened and on the first replay I thought there was nothing he could do. The more you see the goal and take in the distance then it starts to look like Carson could have done more. That's clearly what Baird was saying.  He was pointing to where the shot came from. It was miles out wasn't it. 

But there's one angle where you can see that Carson loses sight of the ball behind Shackell. At full speed with the big deflection and then being unsighted for a moment... 

Wouldn't call them scoring lucky though. We got lucky with a couple of their misses didn't we? The Donaldson chances where Christie goes up behind him for a header in the 1st half and then when he goes from watching him to completely forgetting him in the second. Pooh your pants moment that second one. Could have been 2-0 and then it was 1-1 moments later

If he loses it behind Shackell then he is in the wrong place even more so.

I think he did well with that Donaldson effort and made some good saves. And he performed very well.

I think people think that I am blaming him as we conceded and I think we should never concede and trying to over analyse everything. That isn't the case. I am just merely pointing out that he could have done better as he was too central in his goal, he was a step out of position. Take the deflection out, loss of sight of the ball and it ends up at the same place he wouldn't have saved it. A goalkeeper should not be beaten at his near post by a shot from that far and with as little power as that.

[Dimmu]

If you definitely have to blame someone for their goal, is has to be Baird. He should've been at Gleeson's face as it was clear that he was going to shoot.

I blame the deflection. Damn it.

[VulcanRam]

If he gets beat at the far post it isn't as bad as getting beat at his near post. If the shot hadn't have took the deflection and went in the same place he wouldn't got to it still, it wasn't a good shot, it wasn't powerful. He could have done better, with better positioning.

Yes but if the shot set off in that direction Carson wouldn't have been already going to his right before having to shift his balance, therefore would probably have got to it quite quickly.

What he's watching is a player quite far out shaping to shoot, then shooting, to his right. He starts to move that way, it hits Baird, and flies off in the other direction. It will take him a split second to pick the flight of the ball and and it hit the net right in the corner. 

Anyway, only Carson will know who's right and who's wrong.

But if we are going to have a go at him, it might be worth mentioning his excellent positioning to stop a point blank header from Donaldson in the opening minutes and to take one or two dangerous crosses.  

[eddie]

Again, like the other games, a brilliant second half. So unlucky, hit woodwork 3 times. 

Keogh absolute class. 
Carson very good again, commanded his area well and his kicking is unbelievable. 
Thorne to play Sat, Tues and now Friday and still working his ******** off is amazing, absolute animal. 

Someone's going to get a battering soon, hopefully it's Leeds.

One passage of play summed up Carson in the second half. A dodgy back-pass, a little dinked pass under intense pressure as he was closed down by the Brum forward and Forsyth was off marauding down the flanks again.

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Carson 8- Commanding on corners, crosses. No chance with the goal. Hes much better than Grant. 

Christie 7- Solid enough. Handles Grey well. Got forward well. 

Keogh 8- I thought he was brilliant. Looks a completely different player. 

Shackell 7- Cant remember him losing a header. Commmanding display. A couple of poor passes though. 

Forsyth- 7 Solid. Defended well. Got foward well. I said it on Weds night. He is head and shoulders above Warnock.

Thorne 7- 3 lots of 90 minutes in 6 days is a great achievement for the lad. Few poor passes here and there but can forgive him that. The bloke is absolutely class. If he hadnt had those 2 injuries and has been developing in the prem over the last 2 years I honestly think he would be in and around the England squad now.

Baird 6- Should have closed that shot down a hell of a lot quicker than what he did. Didnt really do too much wrong. Stead enough. But needs to play RB

Ince 8- Best game of the season for him. Always wanting the ball. Always a threat. That bit of play for Russells goal was superb. 

Russell 7- Took his goal very well. But did little else all game. 

Martin-6 Didnt really do too much. 

Bent 7- Impressed with Bent tonight. Thought he workes hard and played well. Could and probably should have had a couple of goals.

Just a quick thing on Russell. On Weds night when he came on I thought he was poor. He slowed the game down doesnt run into any space and looked completely disinterested. His goal just papered over the cracks of a poor performance for me. 

Last night too. I didnt think Russell was that great at all. But he scored so this clouds judgement imo. 

I think we will have at least 1 midfielder in by the time we play Leeds. My guess would be Butterfield. 

Once we get 2 midfielders and a winger in we will be fine. 

I thought we were really good last night. Should have won it. 

[Dimmu]

One thing should be highlighted more.

It was cracking, high intensity game of football! About what, 35-40 chances created in whole game?

[rynny]

Yes but if the shot set off in that direction Carson wouldn't have been already going to his right before having to shift his balance, therefore would probably have got to it quite quickly.

What he's watching is a player quite far out shaping to shoot, then shooting, to his right. He starts to move that way, it hits Baird, and flies off in the other direction. It will take him a split second to pick the flight of the ball and and it hit the net right in the corner. 

My original point is his starting position, he was too central, he should have been to his left. I would have been disappointed if I had conceded that goal, and I don't play in goal anymore.

Anyway, only Carson will know who's right and who's wrong. Agree, I think he will be disappointed

But if we are going to have a go at him, it might be worth mentioning his excellent positioning to stop a point blank header from Donaldson in the opening minutes and to take one or two dangerous crosses.  I did after in the post this quotes. I am not having a go at him, just offering my opinion that I think he could have done better as I believe his starting position.

I have replied in bold. Think people are making a bigger deal out of my opinion than is warranted. My original thought was he was too central, and watching it quite a few times, I haven't changed my mind.

If you look at my profile pic, that is my Grandad on his debut for us, and I started out as a keeper, until I realised I was a better striker, and so I have always had a thing about keeper's performances, postitioning, how best to beat them, working out where they were weak.

[rynny]

If you definitely have to blame someone for their goal, is has to be Baird. He should've been at Gleeson's face as it was clear that he was going to shoot.

I blame the deflection. Damn it.

Agreed, Baird should have done a whole lot better.

[eddie]

So not pointless then?

It was the best cross anyone has produced this season for Derby - just screaming to be put in the net.