McClaren and Newcastle...fact

[rynny]

​Then I would suggest you are very young and have yet to see DCFC really struggle. 

To say that watching DCFC pre McClaren was a chore suggests to me that you are a fair weather fan. 

Nothing wrong with that. 

Wow, so condescending.

I may not have witnessed the slumps in the 80's and I can only apologise for not being old enough/born at that time, I am 29 so not that young, but that doesn't mean I don't know what terrible football is, what having a manager that would rather try not to lose a match than to take a gamble to win, substituting a forward off for a defender against the mighty Barnsley with 5 mins left having just equalised and dominating the game, why having a cm on the wings is a bad thing and losing 4-1 at home to Ssausagehorpe, it can be a chore, it can make you disillusioned that the team goes to every away game not wanting to lose where the manager is happy with any point on the road against anyone.

I have been to/watched/listened/followed any way I can virtually every game since Phil Brown's season, which is the only season I lost a real interest in Derby, and lost that connection since I understood football and what it is about in 95.  But I guess that makes me fair weather fan. 

[Guest]

​Then I would suggest you are very young and have yet to see DCFC really struggle. 

To say that watching DCFC pre McClaren was a chore suggests to me that you are a fair weather fan. 

Nothing wrong with that. 

I am not young unfortunately, and have seen Derby struggle.

The difference being that when we are struggling and pre mcclaren times is that we had hope, even in the darkest days of maxwell it was never dull.  Under Nigel, it was dull, boring, uneventful,  ground hog day every match and season. And a manager that was to stubborn to change his ways.

[Guest]

I would say that by the 0-3 Reading defeat our players had downed tools for him totally. 

Bye Steve... Personally I would have fired you earlier. 

I don't care what he does in his career from now on. He has left Derby and it's done and dusted to me. Sure..played some nice football. The trashing of Forest will live long in the memory. But it felt sour in the end. Best to part company. 

I can't agree with this, are you saying they didn't care about getting into the play offs?

Lets not forget these players had forfeited their match day bonus payments for an improved promotion based scheme.  Most professional players on driven by money, not loyalty to a manager or club.  Imo they didn't stop playing for the manager, they just stopped playing, probably down to it suddenly dawning on them that they were in last chance saloon, and the pressure got to them.

SM made mistakes in them months, maybe he took his eye off the ball, so to speak, but the players should and were good enough to get into the play offs as a minimum, the effort was there, just not the end product.

[Ambitious]

People make things up in their head, present it as fact and then get angry. It's relgion all over again.

What really happened, this is what we know as fact:

Derby were doing really well. Top of the league and flying.

Newcastle lose Pardew and go about looking for a new head coach.

They offer him the job, but he turns them down as he wants to win promotion to the premier league. (He has now confirmed this on two occasions) 

The newspapers catch wind and tell the story.

We lose a number of key players and an important time of the season and become derailed. For one reason or another and finish outside the playoffs.

Not reaching the play offs wasn't good enough for the board and they made the decision to sack him. 

Now, officially unemployed, he is interviewed with a number of candidates for the Newcastle job and gets it. 

*there was also the strong claim that he turned the job down at the end of our season, but that's not been confirmed yet. 

That is the facts. He turned Newcastle down at least once, maybe Twice, and some fans for whatever reason - completely unwarranted in my opinion - questioned his loyalty. Anyone outside of Derby is bemused by that, but we have as very special fanbase.

THIS is what people think happened:

Newcastle came in for him in January and despite rejecting the job, really wanted it.

He then proceeded to fall out with a number of players, apparently for bringing in Ince and Bent as one of the reasons, and made Buxton fake an injury after a 'coffee cup' incident which sounds like it's been made up by someone with the IQ of 54.

The speculation hinders our precious players and he takes his eyes off the job to lick his lips over the Newcastle job which he apparently has a verbal agreement over. Despite, as aforementioned, turning the gig down in the first place. 

We miss out on the playoffs largely due to speculation (lol) and despite having a verbal agreement (lol) turns the Newcastle job down again. 

He then somehow, with his verbal agreement in Newcastle in place, gets Morris to pay him off - logic which I think is just wonderful.

and in the end gets what he's always wanted - the Newcastle job.

the argument will go back and forth but if you look at the FACTS that we know. He turned the Newcastle job down, wanted to stay, we sacked him - in which we had to pay him off - and he gets a job a couple weeks after. 

In my view, we've pushed him out the club for not finishing in the playoffs - he's then got another job.

Morris obviously didn't fancy him as a head coach, that's why he was sacked. Nothing more, nothing less.

I for one hope he does well, because he showed good loyalty in rejecting the Newcastle job in the first place! 

[Curtains]

People make things up in their head, present it as fact and then get angry. It's relgion all over again.

What really happened, this is what we know as fact:

Derby were doing really well. Top of the league and flying.

Newcastle lose Pardew and go about looking for a new head coach.

They offer him the job, but he turns them down as he wants to win promotion to the premier league. (He has now confirmed this on two occasions) 

The newspapers catch wind and tell the story.

We lose a number of key players and an important time of the season and become derailed. For one reason or another and finish outside the playoffs.

Not reaching the play offs wasn't good enough for the board and they made the decision to sack him. 

Now, officially unemployed, he is interviewed with a number of candidates for the Newcastle job and gets it. 

*there was also the strong claim that he turned the job down at the end of our season, but that's not been confirmed yet. 

That is the facts. He turned Newcastle down at least once, maybe Twice, and some fans for whatever reason - completely unwarranted in my opinion - questioned his loyalty. Anyone outside of Derby is bemused by that, but we have as very special fanbase.

THIS is what people think happened:

Newcastle came in for him in January and despite rejecting the job, really wanted it.

He then proceeded to fall out with a number of players, apparently for bringing in Ince and Bent as one of the reasons, and made Buxton fake an injury after a 'coffee cup' incident which sounds like it's been made up by someone with the IQ of 54.

The speculation hinders our precious players and he takes his eyes off the job to lick his lips over the Newcastle job which he apparently has a verbal agreement over. Despite, as aforementioned, turning the gig down in the first place. 

We miss out on the playoffs largely due to speculation (lol) and despite having a verbal agreement (lol) turns the Newcastle job down again. 

He then somehow, with his verbal agreement in Newcastle in place, gets Morris to pay him off - logic which I think is just wonderful.

and in the end gets what he's always wanted - the Newcastle job.

the argument will go back and forth but if you look at the FACTS that we know. He turned the Newcastle job down, wanted to stay, we sacked him - in which we had to pay him off - and he gets a job a couple weeks after. 

In my view, we've pushed him out the club for not finishing in the playoffs - he's then got another job.

Morris obviously didn't fancy him as a head coach, that's why he was sacked. Nothing more, nothing less.

I for one hope he does well, because he showed good loyalty in rejecting the Newcastle job in the first place! 

That's an insult to the players. 

Its just your opinion .

Did you go to the fans forum it was clear that night all was not well to me. 

Why say our precious players. For goodness sake at the fans forum McClaren said half the players didn't like him if they weren't picked .

You have to keep the players onside. 

[Pearl Ram]

...in you opinion.

And that's great, that's what the forum is for. I personally believe he is a slippery piece of work and if he told me tomorrow was Friday, I'd go and check.

I'm not saying I'm right, it's what I feel. Are we to stop posting what we feel in case somebody disagrees with our post and rips us to shreds ? Or worse....ridicules our theories/ thoughts on any subject ?

Sorry me 'owd, I like your posts and I'll continue to enjoy them but one shouldn't try to come over all ITK on stuff because it differs from your take on it.  

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I tend to agree with a lot you say ambitious but on this one I think you are being a little naïve.

[Pearl Ram]

Anyway, to change the subject, I've read somewhere on here McClaren is not using the services of Simmo, preferring Steve Round's. Does anyone know if this is fact ? 

And any news on whether Eric's being tapped up ?

[RLACML]

That's an insult to the players. 

Its just your opinion .

Did you go to the fans forum it was clear that night all was not well to me. 

Why say our precious players. For goodness sake at the fans forum McClaren said half the players didn't like him if they weren't picked .

You have to keep the players onside. 

​If they fell out with him then they're incredibly precious. They're professional footballers for goodness sake, if they 'stop playing' for a manager then they're a joke. 

[Mafiabob]

​If they fell out with him then they're incredibly precious. They're professional footballers for goodness sake, if they 'stop playing' for a manager then they're a joke. 

Spot on.... So many people who think they are "ITK" and that Mac "lost" the dressing room makes me laugh....

What bothers me more.... Is the hate for the man....

Got more things to worry about than "hating" a football manager. Just a game... Don't understand that people can get so worked up about it....

 

 

[Curtains]

​If they fell out with him then they're incredibly precious. They're professional footballers for goodness sake, if they 'stop playing' for a manager then they're a joke. 

Ever fell out with your boss. 

[RLACML]

Ever fell out with your boss. 

I never fell in with my boss, I didn't like him. It didn't stop me from doing my job though. 

[Curtains]

I never fell in with my boss, I didn't like him. It didn't stop me from doing my job though. 

Sounds like you think McClaren had all the players onside which is not the impression he gave at the fans forum. 

So as you say it shouldn't stop them doing their jobs. 

2 wins in the last 13 games suggests they lost form then. 

Are you unhappy with his sacking and if so why and what will you say if Clement gets us promoted. 

Just asking .

Maybe you might have a good word then for DCFC and it's players as they are still at Derby and Mac is plying his trade with Newcastle 

[Ambitious]

I tend to agree with a lot you say ambitious but on this one I think you are being a little naïve.

​Naive about what? There's too many contradictions in the 'made up' version for me.

Why would we pay someone off who has a 'verbal agreement' to go somewhere else. That's the one that genuinely baffles me. 

If the move to Newcastle was always going to happen, due to this 'verbal agreement' then we should have stuck with McClaren until it came into fruition. 

My own conspiracy theory: 

Newcastle came in for McClaren, as said, but he didn't want to go without a promotion on his CV. At this point everything is hunky dory.

Newspaper speculation lingers on for much longer than worth it. He's constantly asked. He constantly says he's got a job to do here - nothing more, nothing less. 

Fans, who were in truly spectacularly c**tish fashion last season, expect him to do some sort of 'I'm not going ******* anywhere' speech and then the relationship between some fans and manager strain.

Pressure increases and injuries increase, we just lack the balance and resilience as a side to win matches and we generally look poor. Fans actually believe that somehow a few newspaper clippings can affect players and relationship strains between fans and McClaren even more.

We miss out on the play-offs in emphatic fashion and Morris, who is a fan and will have been frustrated by that, looks to replacements. I think he liked the look of Clement and decided fairly early on he wanted a change.

When McClaren turned down Newcastle for the second time, following the season ending, Morris had expected him to take the job. When he didn't, I just think he had his heart set on change and gave him the boot.

I believe he was paid off as he genuinely wasn't wanted here. I also think he had the full support of Sam Rush, who I expect like Forsyth, Bent...etc is sad to see him leave.

[Curtains]

​Naive about what? There's too many contradictions in the 'made up' version for me.

Why would we pay someone off who has a 'verbal agreement' to go somewhere else. That's the one that genuinely baffles me. 

If the move to Newcastle was always going to happen, due to this 'verbal agreement' then we should have stuck with McClaren until it came into fruition. 

My own conspiracy theory: 

Newcastle came in for McClaren, as said, but he didn't want to go without a promotion on his CV. At this point everything is hunky dory.

Newspaper speculation lingers on for much longer than worth it. He's constantly asked. He constantly says he's got a job to do here - nothing more, nothing less. 

Fans, who were in truly spectacularly c**tish fashion last season, expect him to do some sort of 'I'm not going ******* anywhere' speech and then the relationship between some fans and manager strain.

Pressure increases and injuries increase, we just lack the balance and resilience as a side to win matches and we generally look poor. Fans actually believe that somehow a few newspaper clippings can affect players and relationship strains between fans and McClaren even more.

We miss out on the play-offs in emphatic fashion and Morris, who is a fan and will have been frustrated by that, looks to replacements. I think he liked the look of Clement and decided fairly early on he wanted a change.

When McClaren turned down Newcastle for the second time, following the season ending, Morris had expected him to take the job. When he didn't, I just think he had his heart set on change and gave him the boot.

I believe he was paid off as he genuinely wasn't wanted here. I also think he had the full support of Sam Rush, who I expect like Forsyth, Bent...etc is sad to see him leave.

Wow just wow 

[RLACML]

Sounds like you think McClaren had all the players onside which is not the impression he gave at the fans forum. 

So as you say it shouldn't stop them doing their jobs. 

2 wins in the last 13 games suggests they lost form then. 

Are you unhappy with his sacking and if so why and what will you say if Clement gets us promoted. 

Just asking .

Maybe you might have a good word then for DCFC and it's players as they are still at Derby and Mac is plying his trade with Newcastle 

I have no idea whether he had the players on side or not, that's not what we were discussing. A common theme is that he had lost the players so had to go. I was merely asking what sort of footballer stops playing for a manager? It seems it's just accepted that players will occasionally stop playing for someone they don't like. Why aren't they being held accountable? 

I was very unhappy with his sacking. He did a good job and was unlucky with how both seasons went. What will I say if Clement succeeds? I'll be absolutely delighted. I'm much more interested in the success of my team than playing stupid little games on a forum. And as I've said before, a bad decision doesn't necessarily lead to a bad outcome.

[Curtains]

I have no idea whether he had the players on side or not, that's not what we were discussing. A common theme is that he had lost the players so had to go. I was merely asking what sort of footballer stops playing for a manager? It seems it's just accepted that players will occasionally stop playing for someone they don't like. Why aren't they being held accountable? 

I was very unhappy with his sacking. He did a good job and was unlucky with how both seasons went. What will I say if Clement succeeds? I'll be absolutely delighted. I'm much more interested in the success of my team than playing stupid little games on a forum. And as I've said before, a bad decision doesn't necessarily lead to a bad outcome.

You seem to be in a minority regarding bad decision. 

But I respect your views. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I understand your point of view, its your opinion. I would say though;

1. Who says we paid him compensation?

2. I am not aware of any "verbal agreement" for him to go. He may or may not have had a private agreement for the end of the season.

3. He didn't do enough to scotch the rumours when the Newcastle story broke. It left doubt in the minds of some Derby fans (me included) that he was interested and fancied Newcastle but was stuck with Derby for now. This felt like a lack of the commitment necessary to see the job through. Our collapse, whether due to losing the dressing room or due to injuries or maybe a little of both is immaterial. From the time of the Newcastle contact until the end of the season we were not the same side and he was in charge and he seemed unable to motivate himself or the players.

My conclusion is that from January onwards Newcastle Utd were in his mind.

This was in reply to Ambitious by the way!

[rynny]

I understand your point of view, its your opinion. I would say though;

1. Who says we paid him compensation?

2. I am not aware of any "verbal agreement" for him to go. He may or may not have had a private agreement for the end of the season.

3. He didn't do enough to scotch the rumours when the Newcastle story broke. It left doubt in the minds of some Derby fans (me included) that he was interested and fancied Newcastle but was stuck with Derby for now. This felt like a lack of the commitment necessary to see the job through. Our collapse, whether due to losing the dressing room or due to injuries or maybe a little of both is immaterial. From the time of the Newcastle contact until the end of the season we were not the same side and he was in charge and he seemed unable to motivate himself or the players.

My conclusion is that from January onwards Newcastle Utd were in his mind.

This was in reply to Ambitious by the way!

I dont think we were the same team for much of the season, especially compared to the season before

[RLACML]

As for how it'll work out, let's see. I still think it was the wrong decision to sack Nigel at that time but it worked out very well. I'm very optimistic about the future, although slightly concerned at our spending.