The Will Hughes debate

[ThesePeople]

Most of us agree an overhall of the squad is required. Most of us would also agree we would like Will Hughes to stay at the club.

However, with this in mind, assuming we may get between £10-15 million for Will Hughes and Steve would get all of it to reinvest, flip things around slightly and consider the 2 options:

In Derby's current position and with a budget of £10-15 million would you:

A: Buy Will Hughes

B: Buy a new defence, a couple of quality attacking midfielders and a new striker

Time for a change?

​A new defence, a couple of attacking midfielders, and a new striker, all good enough to fit into a team and finish top 2 in the championship, for 10-15 million? Either you're high or you've recently emerged from a several decade long state of cryopreservation. Quality players for less than several million are a rarity rather than a regularity in today's game (Chris Martin). Unless you're counting on a huge streak of luck your statement is completely unrealistic.

If we're looking at top quality we could maybe get a striker, 1 attacking mid, and a defender. 

How do you know all these signings will be a success? Hughes already plays well in our team. You don't have to look far to find signings that haven't done as well as expected once they've been bought. We could spend 10m on players and end up not improving the squad at all. What if they get injured like Thorne, or don't settle in well?

10 or even 15 million would be a ridiculous gamble to take in my opinion. Hughes will likely improve again next season, as he did this season. He's just turned 20.

 

I see 10m as the absolute top end. Wouldn't be surprised to see less than that, maybe with add ons. 

​I despair.

 

​I think they over rate his value, anything near 10 mill is good business.

​Yes, then we could almost buy Ross Mccormack! 

 

​I don't think so, he's a spurs, everton maybe Liverpool quality player. I very much doubt he'll play for the top 4.

​He's 4 years younger than Aaran Ramsey and 3 years younger than Jack Wilshere, and technically better than both. I'm not sure I'd have either over Hughes. Arsenal look like finishing 2nd, or at least 3rd. 

Surrounded by the quality of players you get in top 4 sides, I think he'd fit in easily, especially in another year or two, when he'll surely be better than he is now.

 

There's simply no way I'd sell for less than 20m, given the prices that players of much less ability than Hughes are sold for in today's game. You're all acting like we could get X amount of money, easily find top quality players for 1m each, and persuade them to join. Then they'd fit in immediately and begin battling it out among each other for Championship player of the month. Ludicrous.

[Kernow]

I think we'd take upwards of 12mil plus add-ons.

How long has Will got on his contract? Until 2018? He's a PL player already, he's not going to want to waste a fair amount of his career at Derby. He'll want to be in the PL before 2018 surely, I'm sure he has his mind set on the 2018 World Cup so he'll need at least the season before that in the PL to even be considered.

I hope he gets to the PL with us, but I think one more season without promotion and he'll start getting restless. He deserves to play in the PL.

Can anyone name a player in England aged 20 or under who has played near to 119 games (Wiki stats) for his club?

[Posh Ram]

​A new defence, a couple of attacking midfielders, and a new striker, all good enough to fit into a team and finish top 2 in the championship, for 10-15 million? Either you're high or you've recently emerged from a several decade long state of cryopreservation. Quality players for less than several million are a rarity rather than a regularity in today's game (Chris Martin). Unless you're counting on a huge streak of luck your statement is completely unrealistic.

If we're looking at top quality we could maybe get a striker, 1 attacking mid, and a defender. 

How do you know all these signings will be a success? Hughes already plays well in our team. You don't have to look far to find signings that haven't done as well as expected once they've been bought. We could spend 10m on players and end up not improving the squad at all. What if they get injured like Thorne, or don't settle in well?

10 or even 15 million would be a ridiculous gamble to take in my opinion. Hughes will likely improve again next season, as he did this season. He's just turned 20.

 

​I despair.

 

​Yes, then we could almost buy Ross Mccormack! 

 

​He's 4 years younger than Aaran Ramsey and 3 years younger than Jack Wilshere, and technically better than both. I'm not sure I'd have either over Hughes. Arsenal look like finishing 2nd, or at least 3rd. 

Surrounded by the quality of players you get in top 4 sides, I think he'd fit in easily, especially in another year or two, when he'll surely be better than he is now.

 

There's simply no way I'd sell for less than 20m, given the prices that players of much less ability than Hughes are sold for in today's game. You're all acting like we could get X amount of money, easily find top quality players for 1m each, and persuade them to join. Then they'd fit in immediately and begin battling it out among each other for Championship player of the month. Ludicrous.

​Wow. Just wow. 

You wouldn't take Ramsey? Ramsey would walk all over this league. Absolutely dominate it.

The gap in class between here and the Prem is big. I really rate Will but I don't see him standing out in the Premier League. He'll probably be a good Premier League player who gets a couple of England caps. I'd be surprised if he's ever as good as Ramsey. Wilshere... maybe.

As for asking price, it's a tough one. I think his true value is about £8million but in a world of massively overpaying, coupled with the hype he gets because he's English, I think we could push it to about 16, especially if there were multiple suitors. That would be a fantastic deal. Reinvest it in some quality in defence, a winger, a striker, a dm and we still might have some left over for January.

[DerbyRam!]

i think christie, with a decent cb pairing, will be solid

 

he is not bad going forward and seems to only make himself trouble when one second he is being told to dribble it out and play it down the field and the next second being told to smash it out everytime

 

needs time, good thing is he is only about 21

[EastKentRam]

​A new defence, a couple of attacking midfielders, and a new striker, all good enough to fit into a team and finish top 2 in the championship, for 10-15 million? Either you're high or you've recently emerged from a several decade long state of cryopreservation. Quality players for less than several million are a rarity rather than a regularity in today's game (Chris Martin). Unless you're counting on a huge streak of luck your statement is completely unrealistic.

If we're looking at top quality we could maybe get a striker, 1 attacking mid, and a defender. 

How do you know all these signings will be a success? Hughes already plays well in our team. You don't have to look far to find signings that haven't done as well as expected once they've been bought. We could spend 10m on players and end up not improving the squad at all. What if they get injured like Thorne, or don't settle in well?

10 or even 15 million would be a ridiculous gamble to take in my opinion. Hughes will likely improve again next season, as he did this season. He's just turned 20.

 

​I despair.

 

​Yes, then we could almost buy Ross Mccormack! 

 

​He's 4 years younger than Aaran Ramsey and 3 years younger than Jack Wilshere, and technically better than both. I'm not sure I'd have either over Hughes. Arsenal look like finishing 2nd, or at least 3rd. 

Surrounded by the quality of players you get in top 4 sides, I think he'd fit in easily, especially in another year or two, when he'll surely be better than he is now.

 

There's simply no way I'd sell for less than 20m, given the prices that players of much less ability than Hughes are sold for in today's game. You're all acting like we could get X amount of money, easily find top quality players for 1m each, and persuade them to join. Then they'd fit in immediately and begin battling it out among each other for Championship player of the month. Ludicrous.

​You pretty much lost all creditability when you said you'd rather have Hughes than Aaron Ramsey.

You're argument about 'quality players for less than several million are a rarity' is also a ridiculous argument. Go through all of the top 6 teams and you can find plenty of key players bought for less than £3 million. 

[ThesePeople]

​You pretty much lost all creditability when you said you'd rather have Hughes than Aaron Ramsey.

You're argument about 'quality players for less than several million are a rarity' is also a ridiculous argument. Go through all of the top 6 teams and you can find plenty of key players bought for less than £3 million. 

​Would be nice if people didn't read what they wanted to see in order to suit their own agenda.

I said 'I'm not sure'. You can read it if you like, you quoted it yourself.

Ramsey was very very good last season, this season not so much. Wilshere has done nothing for a while now.

[Duracell]

Hughes will sink or swim at a higher level. He's probably about reached his peak in the Championship, because he'll always be limited by the reading of the game from his team-mates, as well as their control and their ability to find him in clever bits of space.

He obviously has a good tactical understanding of the game. They're really good attributes. The downsides are his lack of stamina, the silly yellow cards, getting "sucked in" by the mardiness of the opposition (thinking particularly of Leeds away here), disappointing finishing and perhaps the biggest of all - he's really one-footed. Would it be easier for the top managers to keep him quiet when he's got such an obvious weakness? He gets by in this league because he's so much better than the rest.

I've seen a few journalists in the big papers saying "he's never performed against Premier League sides" in Cup competitions. What a load of drivel that is. These journos like to write fairytale stories about the wonderkid who turned the game around for David against the might of Goliath, but that only ever happens when a player is playing out of his skin and because the opposition doesn't know a thing about him. Hughes' qualities are never going to be as obvious to these types as a tricky winger, an athletic striker, or even a commanding centre-back. Goes back to what I was saying about him not being proclaimed as the next whoever. You know, all we need is a winger from the Academy with the right skin colour to breeze past a couple of players and whack one into the top corner on the opening day of next season for us to have "the next Oxlade-Chamberlain" on our hands. We'd get as much for him as Hughes.

Remember when Robinho was "the next Pele"? That was literally solely based on the fact he was a Brazilian who had knocked in a few goals for Santos.

[Dimmu]

Maybe he'll spend rest of his career with us (okay, unlikely). But I wouldn't mind.

[Alph]

​I think the reason why he's gone is partly his position. He's an 8/10 central midfielder at this level, maybe 8.5/10. 8/10 English wingers at this level of his age go for £193982398 million gazillion pounds because journalists at the Mirror and the Sun stay up late sometimes and watch the Football League Show, slap the "highly-rated wonderkid" tag on the tricky young winger who just scored a belter against some disgusting team like Barnsley to fill some space in the next day's paper. Before you know it there's a bidding war between the big clubs to a.) make a statement to the fans and b.) make sure no one else gets him. That's how Zaha ended up at United.

Players like Hughes in that kind of position are underrated in this country. How many times have you heard fans saying he needs to "baulk up"? Wtf? That has nothing to do with his game.

There are dozens upon dozens of players similar to Hughes' ability in Spain and Germany, and they'll be much cheaper. In fact he's the sort of young player the big Spanish and German clubs would pass over, which then Arsenal and Liverpool go for, and they wonder why they're being left behind.

That's the problem with Hughes. He's not a "type". He's not been described as the next "__________" by the papers, so we've had no bidding war from clubs run by clowns who make their decisions based on what the papers tell them to do. £25million? Not a chance.

 

Another beautiful post. You're getting good at them 

A highlights reel of Will Hughes will consist of 10-15 yard passes to players under no pressure who have the best passing options. As clever as he is to see so much of the pitch I don't think it's edge of your seat stuff. 

I wouldn't sell. I'd build a team around him. I don't think you'd get what he's worth to us. Him and Thorne. 

As for where Hughes will eventually end up... he could go to West Brom and be a pointless player. He could go to Ipswich and watch on from the bench. But I think he could also go to a club like Liverpool or Southampton or Arsenal if they looked after him and do for them what he does here. 

But with more aggression. He needs that killer instinct a bit more. Like Dawkins he finds the best and safest pass to get the team in the best position. Rarely does he hit the risky final ball or go for goal himself. It's coming along though. If he can do that then I'm sure teams like Arsenal and Liverpool would show interest. 

Really want to see him continue to develop that here. 

[Alph]

How many times have you read or heard that losing Ibe was a massive blow to us? I even heard it on Saturday on the football league show.

The only people that don't say it is Derby fans. 

Where the media see him rounding 3 defenders with 2 somersaults and forward roll before doing a diving header to pass to Martin, we saw all the other 85 mins. 85 mins of him running down the A52 with the ball because he's not looked up. 

A couple of good runs down the wing and a YouTube video and youre worth £15m.

[Duracell]

Another beautiful post. You're getting good at them 

A highlights reel of Will Hughes will consist of 10-15 yard passes to players under no pressure who have the best passing options. As clever as he is to see so much of the pitch I don't think it's edge of your seat stuff. 

I wouldn't sell. I'd build a team around him. I don't think you'd get what he's worth to us. Him and Thorne. 

As for where Hughes will eventually end up... he could go to West Brom and be a pointless player. He could go to Ipswich and watch on from the bench. But I think he could also go to a club like Liverpool or Southampton or Arsenal if they looked after him and do for them what he does here. 

But with more aggression. He needs that killer instinct a bit more. Like Dawkins he finds the best and safest pass to get the team in the best position. Rarely does he hit the risky final ball or go for goal himself. It's coming along though. If he can do that then I'm sure teams like Arsenal and Liverpool would show interest. 

Really want to see him continue to develop that here. 

​Completely agree with the killer instinct thing.

Did you watch Pirlo play last night? I've compared Hughes to him before. Not because I think he's going to be that good, but because they're good players for their teams for similar reasons. Neither are physical, and neither of them are what you'd describe as particularly flashy. They're both smart though, and their strength is in their passing. Juventus and Italy play well when Pirlo is able to make his mark, and Derby rarely struggle when Hughes is on his game.

When you look at Pirlo's career, it was 10 years after his debut that he first made 30 appearances in a season. He turned 25 in 03/04. Players of that type are often late developers and it's often because they lack the something, or haven't refined the something that makes a great player. There's no way that killer ball was on him when he was in and out of the Inter Milan side in the late 90s, when he was the same age as Hughes is now. He had it in him, but he had to learn it.

I bring up last night because I'd put good money on Pirlo having a lower pass completion rate than Hughes did on Saturday, and that's because he was trying risky balls. A lot of them came off, but it really rattled Real because they know that a defensive slip against him and he can carve you open in just one pass.

Hughes doesn't have that fear factor in him yet, but he's bright. That's sometimes why he's so safe - his thinking is "I can see that pass, but I'm not going to make it, better to keep the ball". He was still a teenager until a couple of weeks ago - there are plenty of players his age still playing U21 football who could yet become full internationals. He's got ages to find that missing piece, and his best bet is here because he's getting games.

[Kernow]

​Completely agree with the killer instinct thing.

Did you watch the Pirlo play last night? I've compared Hughes to him before. Not because I think he's going to be that good, but because they're good players to their teams for similar reasons. Neither are physical, and neither of them are what you'd describe as particularly flashy. They're both smart though, and their strength is in their passing. Juventus and Italy play well when Pirlo does, and Derby rarely struggle when Hughes is on his game.

When you look at Pirlo's career, it was 10 years after his debut that he first made 30 appearances in a season. He turned 25 in 03/04. Players of that type are often late developers and it's often because they lack the something, or haven't refined the something that makes a great player. There's no way that killer ball on him when he was in and out of the Inter Milan side in the late 90s, when he was the same age as Hughes is now. He had it in him, but he had to learn it.

I bring up last night because I'd put good money on Pirlo having a lower pass completion rate than Hughes did on Saturday, and that's because he was trying risky balls. A lot of them came off, but it really rattled Real because they know that a defensive slip against him and he can carve you open in just one pass.

Hughes doesn't have that fear factor in him yet, but he's bright. That's sometimes why he's so safe - his thinking is "I can see that pass, but I'm not going to make it, better to keep the ball". He was still a teenager until a couple of weeks ago - there are plenty of players his age still playing U21 football who could yet become full internationals. He's got ages to find that missing piece, and his best bet is here because he's getting games.

​Pirlo covered the second most distance on the pitch last night, only behind his teammate Arturo Vidal.

Hughes can play the sort of role Pirlo plays, holding midfielder BUT he would need a partner to do the tackling and grafting, like Pirlo does.

Now Pirlo is a magnificent player, and if Hughes reaches anywhere near the level that man is at then England will be very blessed, but I feel Hughes as a holding midfielder with another real defensive midfielder, i.e Thorne, could really work.

Thorne Hughes

[Insert winger] [insert CAM] Russell

Martin

This is the way to go in my opinion. That's assuming Will is a Derby player come September.

[Dimmu]

​Completely agree with the killer instinct thing.

Did you watch Pirlo play last night? I've compared Hughes to him before. Not because I think he's going to be that good, but because they're good players for their teams for similar reasons. Neither are physical, and neither of them are what you'd describe as particularly flashy. They're both smart though, and their strength is in their passing. Juventus and Italy play well when Pirlo is able to make his mark, and Derby rarely struggle when Hughes is on his game.

When you look at Pirlo's career, it was 10 years after his debut that he first made 30 appearances in a season. He turned 25 in 03/04. Players of that type are often late developers and it's often because they lack the something, or haven't refined the something that makes a great player. There's no way that killer ball was on him when he was in and out of the Inter Milan side in the late 90s, when he was the same age as Hughes is now. He had it in him, but he had to learn it.

I bring up last night because I'd put good money on Pirlo having a lower pass completion rate than Hughes did on Saturday, and that's because he was trying risky balls. A lot of them came off, but it really rattled Real because they know that a defensive slip against him and he can carve you open in just one pass.

Hughes doesn't have that fear factor in him yet, but he's bright. That's sometimes why he's so safe - his thinking is "I can see that pass, but I'm not going to make it, better to keep the ball". He was still a teenager until a couple of weeks ago - there are plenty of players his age still playing U21 football who could yet become full internationals. He's got ages to find that missing piece, and his best bet is here because he's getting games.

​Pirlo is good comparison but I'm still not sure which is best position for Hughes. Pirlo had played most of his career as attacking midfielder before he asked Ancelotti to play him as where nowadays does.

[Sexydadbod]

The thing with Pirlo is the Juventus team  has a lot of players around him with a lot of energy like vidal,pogba,marchisio, pererya so if he loses the ball they can quickly retrieve it back. We don't have a single 1 of those kind of players let alone 4 which makes it risky playing hughes in the lone defensive midfield role.

[cloughandtaylor]

Does Hughes ever have an average game?

I find he's either very very good or very very poor and our results usually reflect this.

[CheltenhamRam]

"​He's 4 years younger than Aaran Ramsey and 3 years younger than Jack Wilshere, and technically better than both. I'm not sure I'd have either over Hughes. Arsenal look like finishing 2nd, or at least 3rd."

Are you Will's mum?

[Dambuster]

Does Hughes ever have an average game?

I find he's either very very good or very very poor and our results usually reflect this.

It might help if there was some stability to where he's played I.e. Just behind the front line where he can hurt teams.

Can I also ask other fans who you would trust with any money received from such a sale when the track record so far is Dawkins, Shotton, Warnock, Christie, Albentosa and some in the under 21's who have rarely featured.

i'm excluding Thorne as I thought he was already on our list before SM arrived.

[Alph]

I consider Dawkins and Christie good signings.And Thorne. Thorne wasn't here before McClaren.

[Gypsy Ram]

I consider Dawkins and Christie good signings.And Thorne. Thorne wasn't here before McClaren.

Clough tried to get him in on loan. 

 

He was on our radar. 

[Lord_Ram]

Clough tried to get him in on loan. 

 

He was on our radar. 

​thats the first ive heard of that