Alberto Bueno to West Bromwich Albion

[Bris Vegas]

I've thought for a long time that the average football fan is a total duck egg.

 

Not aimed at you RLACML.

 

But it's stuff like this thread that's made me realise that I'm better off not posting on forums.

 

Bueno played a lot of games for us during his loan spell. Mis- used my arse.

 

McClaren has transformed Bucko as well. He was gargbage until Clough left.

 

Too easy my arse.

 

He was badly mis-used in a formation/style of play that didn't suit him.

 

Why have technical players such as Bueno and Commons and play hoofball? Why?

 

For the first 4 months of that season we were excellent, used players accordingly and our front four of Bueno, Commons, Cywka, Kuqi (target man) with two holding midfielders in Sav and Bailey had the formation and style used to get the best out of their abilities.

 

It was six round pegs in round holes.

 

Then it was awful hoofball with survival 4-4-2 with so many players out of position. Leacock at right-back and Brayford centre-back anyone?

 

Bueno was never the same again in the same way Iniesta would look pretty useless at left-wing in an Aidy Boothroyd-based 4-4-2 wackball side.

[AmericanRam]

He was badly mis-used in a formation/style of play that didn't suit him.

 

Why have technical players such as Bueno and Commons and play hoofball? Why?

 

For the first 4 months of that season we were excellent, used players accordingly and our front four of Bueno, Commons, Cywka, Kuqi (target man) with two holding midfielders in Sav and Bailey had the formation and style used to get the best out of their abilities.

 

It was six round pegs in round holes.

 

Then it was awful hoofball with survival 4-4-2 with so many players out of position. Leacock at right-back and Brayford centre-back anyone?

 

Bueno was never the same again in the same way Iniesta would look pretty useless at left-wing in an Aidy Boothroyd-based 4-4-2 wackball side.

Bris, you make some great comments again mate. Agreed.

[Bris Vegas]

Bris, you make some great comments again mate. Agreed.

 

Keep agreeing with me buddy and you'll pick up a reputation as a negative wum.

 

I wasn't exactly everyone's favourite poster during Nigel Clough's reign at the club - I think I may even drove a few people away to join rival forums though this was partially made up by others joining up to have a pop.

 

The storm is a lot more calmer nowadays but old NC related topics such as this one gets a few posters going again - no more so than ronnie.

[Guest]

Ronnie, I am sure you will remember that I was one of the posters who very rarely called NC during his tenure here. But I'm afraid that the sort of thing that Bris is on about here is the thing that eventually turned the tide for me. If you fail to see the point being made I'm afraid it will only add to the perception that you are totally blinkered to NCs failings.

[TigerTedd]

I was and am as big a fan as NC as anyone. But when you think back to the fact that we had resources like Bueno and Commons at our disposal, and how excited we were to have those players. But, ultimately, it resulted in a couple of good days, but mostly humdrum mediocrity.

NC gets a lot of credit for a lot of the work he did here. But can you imagine Bueno and Commons in this team under this regime?

We thought Commons was crazy for wanting to move on at the time. But, with hindsight, of course he wanted to move on. Why would he want to stay in mediocrity when he's got the talent to do so much more?

We were feeding off scraps at the time. A durge of 'meh' results, with the occasional good win to be proud of. There were signs that there was a good team underneath, but now we're in a position where were genuinely disappointed if we don't win every game 5-0.

It's to NCs credit, though, that we even managed to attract players of this, or any half decent, calibre. We weren't really an attractive proposition.

[Ramarena]

Mis-used; as in his tactical role in the side, not the amount of game time he got.

We signed him with the intent of playing good football on the deck. Our squad depth made this impossible throughout a whole season (Bailey getting injured, no replacement for Kuqi etcetera) thus we were forced to resort to hoofball, with Bueno out on the wing, if anywhere.

He was misused, but you could argue as to why he was misused.

 

The "no replacement" for Kuqi is a misnomer.

 

Kuqi was dropped for Luke Moore, as soon as Moore was bought in for the Burnley away defeat (I think), our style changed at that point, it was a very deliberate, "tactical" change and nothing to do with injury, etc.

 

Kuqi along with Bueno remained on the bench for several games after this before Kuqi left.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Wasn't it the expert tuition of Mr. Jewell that took Bueno from wonder kid to hopeless? I'm sure he took the pen that camp saved in the t@wAtwell game against Forest? I have him remembered as part of the should have done a ton better derby players before Nigel's austerity fun times took off.

[Ramarena]

Wasn't it the expert tuition of Mr. Jewell that took Bueno from wonder kid to hopeless? I'm sure he took the pen that camp saved in the t@wAtwell game against Forest? I have him remembered as part of the should have done a ton better derby players before Nigel's austerity fun times took off.

 

No, he was a Clough signing. 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/derby_county/8956980.stm

 

I remember hearing at a fans forum that season Glick mentioned that the sale of Hulse (for in the region of

[RadioactiveWaste]

OK, I remembered that wrong, no worries.

[RadioactiveWaste]

I was thinking of Nacer Barazite. Just looked it up.

[ronnieronalde]

Ronnie, I am sure you will remember that I was one of the posters who very rarely called NC during his tenure here. But I'm afraid that the sort of thing that Bris is on about here is the thing that eventually turned the tide for me. If you fail to see the point being made I'm afraid it will only add to the perception that you are totally blinkered to NCs failings.

 

The perception is already there GStar. It wont change even if I say Nige made lots of mistakes. He did, A lot.

 

Including changing the style a couple of times when it looked like we were onto something. Bringing in Carroll when we were flying, loaning Adam Smith who was totally ***** . BIG mistakes.

 

I just don't think he was responsible for Bueno suddenly dipping in form, In fact I think he tiried to play him through his dip.

 

Bueno became ineffective once the team lost it's confidence.

 

NIge had to get results, every time we lost a game and sometimes even when we drew one, this place went into meltdown.

 

Before Bueno came we'd started the season awfully , winning one out of the first 8.

 

Suddenly we clicked and Bueno, Commons and Kuqi were a big part of that. Between September and November we won 8 out of 11.

 

Then we went on a horrible run losing 5 in a row between November and the new year, culminating in the 5-2 away at Forest where Leacock lost the plot, having just come from injury and asked for a new contract, and the team in general had totally shot it confidence wise. Bueno played in all of those games bar one.

 

Something had to change, we were too easy to beat.

 

We stopped the rot at Preston winning 2-1, not sure if he was left out or he'd picked up a knock.

 

After winning away at Preston we didn't win another game for 9 matches, drawing 3 and losing 6.

 

I dont think we suddenly started playing hoofball at all, we gradually went back to it when we HAD to grind out results, we were getting dragged into a relegation battle and no matter how many on here were saying they'd prefer to see us play well and lose, that simply wasn't true, this place was a an awful place for those 3 months.

 

It's a lot nicer these days. Steve McC is actually allowed to lose a game or two without everyone coming on and slating his every fibre.

 

There was no room for flair players then, simply, there wasn't. We'd have got relegated trying to play football.

 

Bueno was brilliant during our purple patch, a really good technically gifted player and I was praying we'd re-sign him once we'd stayed up, but for that time and for those circumstances he wasn't what we needed.

 

That's not being blind to Nigel's failings, that's being realistic.

[Guest]

Nigel was also given time to lose a game or 2, it was the fifth sixth and seventh that stretched the patience, along with the fact he never won more than he lost in a season.

Nigel in his first few years didnt really get much stick, it was after he inbedded his own team and watching derby became a chore along with mid table the best we could hope for, that many became disheartened with him.

As for bueno, i would say a bit of misuse and a bit of a young player still learing his trade.

[R@M]

IMHO, I think it is a bit of both sides of the argument here. Bueno looked very good when the team played well, but that didn't happen often enough to possibly carry Bueno, Commons, Cywka and Kuqi ( who for the most part played well but not enough goal threat to carry the team). In that team who is comparable to today's team? Barker is the only definite, possibly Brayford and Commons.

Due to the players available at the time.....a time of transition and deadwood clearing.... Bueno was 'misused' as his type of formation and surrounding players was not a luxury we could afford. Equally, he was so good that he should not have been left out so was utilised as best as we could. If he came back now I think he could not only take this league but also the PL by storm.

[Anon]

He was playing in a very unbalanced team. A forward four of Bueno, Commons, Cywka and Kuqi had no defensive sensibilities whatsoever. Kuqi at least provided an option for our defenders to play it long. Once he was replaced with Moore we struggled to retain possession high up the field and that rendered the attacking midfielders useless.

 

That still rankles with me as one of Clough's worst decisions. It was blindingly obvious that Kuqi made that system work. He can't have been more expensive than Moore.

[R@M]

But Cywka went missing for the majority of most games and Kuqi did not score and couldn't manage to play all/and every game. That season Roberts was mostly poor, Leacock was disinterested and error prone, our midfield was Green and Savage, not the most creative! Clough had to revert to a more solid basic 442 to protect the suspect back 5 and Moore should have offered us more (!) in speed, fitness and goal threat.

[Anon]

I may be misremembering, but I know that when we had Kuqi with Moore coming on as a sub we were in the play off positions. Once we changed that system we barely won a game for the next few months and tumbled down the league.

[R@M]

From memory....correct me if I'm wrong... But we loaned both Kuqi and Moore for 3 months in September after a bad start and injuries to Porter and Davies, no surprise there! Things did pick up after ( and a relatively good inconsistency was maintained )but at the end of the loan deals, both Porter and Davies were fit (ish) and Kuqi somehow got a move to PL Newcastle.