Racism Row

[Asanovic]

I think racism in football in England isn't as bad as is made out, a couple of high profile cases in Suarez and Terry, and all of a sudden every fan, player, manager and chairman are racist if they mention words like monkey. As for other sports, why isn't there more black players or managers in them? Is it down to lack of opportunity at grass roots level? Are the players not being picked to advance their training? Are they not wanting to pursue a career in these other sports?

 

But if it happens at all it's bad.

 

You talk of Suarez and Terry cases but there are supporter issues too - I've heard racist comments at football matches both at Derby and other games. And also it's clearly a huge problem in Eastern Europe as well.

 

Again I'm talking about a subject I'm not overly clued up in but my understanding is Cricket, Tennis, Golf haven't faced racism the way football did, and still does - so rightly or wrongly it's easier to sweep lack of representation under the carpet.

 

But in a sport when black players have had bananas thrown at them and monkey chants made at them, more should be done to increase inclusion at a younger level. Do I think a man should be selected for a managerial role because he's black? No. I think everything should be done to include all backgrounds at a young age so by default the best people for the best jobs in this country are diverse.

 

I went to 'soccer schools' with Derby when I was a kid - all white. Nip two miles down the road and you'd find a culturally rich city that needs to integrate. Get everyone involved, that's all I'm saying.

 

The problem is, Let's Kick Racism Out Of Football is just an agenda to shoehorn black people in to jobs without really stopping to think about how it should be done. There's a root problem and it's at a much younger age, IMO.

[Alph]

Thing is Asanovic is FIFA talks about the racism in football here but national sides like Ukraine and Serbia get a slapped wrist.

I don't agree with forcing communities to integrate. People are different. They can't always mix. It's a fantasy.

And football shouldn't have to apologise for the slave trade. Just like Germany shouldn't have to have lots of Jewish managers. Nations, religions etc have been targeted throughout history. Native Americans, Jews, Christians, Pagans, Muslims etc

Hit the racism issues hard and you might stamp it out. Instead they look for racism where there is none.

Serbia get a fine. England starts restructuring it's employment scheme!!

Black people just aren't oppressed. It's just bullsh1t propaganda. In Africa day in and day out oppression exists. Has done for centuries. But it's not about race. It's about money. It's rich v poor.

Clubs will employ scumbags like Marlon King or Suarez. They'll back a racist or a rapist or a thief or a murderer if its serves in their best interest. It's about money. Always.

There aren't enough black managers? Well Im pretty sure that black people in this country aren't the majority. They also aren't the majority of players in English football.

Thing is (and I wouldn't be suprised if I was shot down for saying this but people aren't equal. African men tend to be dominant at some sports. Maybe it's the build or whatever. We aren't built the same. How many Asian builders do you see? Would you typically assume that Chinese people are short?

If I wanted a big, powerful and fast player should I watch the Copa America or would I be better in the African Nations?

There's divides. And instead of glossing over it I think we should embrace it. That means not being racist. Not making racism an issue. And punish actual open racism such as monkey chants by Serbia.

Like Morgan Freeman says. He's not black. He's American. The way to deal with racism is stop talking about it. What is The Society Of Black Lawyers?!?

It's people trying to force clubs to interview black candidates that are making racism an issue. There's no racism issue in there.

[Mostyn6]

it's not going to do much for racism if someone thinks they've been unjustly overlooked for a job because they are NOT black!

 

I can't help thinking of the scene in American History X where Ed Norton (and Ed Furlong)'s father, who plays a cop, corrupts their mind with the story of being partnered with a Black cop who was employed cos he was black.

[rynny]

But if it happens at all it's bad.

You talk of Suarez and Terry cases but there are supporter issues too - I've heard racist comments at football matches both at Derby and other games. And also it's clearly a huge problem in Eastern Europe as well.

Again I'm talking about a subject I'm not overly clued up in but my understanding is Cricket, Tennis, Golf haven't faced racism the way football did, and still does - so rightly or wrongly it's easier to sweep lack of representation under the carpet.

But in a sport when black players have had bananas thrown at them and monkey chants made at them, more should be done to increase inclusion at a younger level. Do I think a man should be selected for a managerial role because he's black? No. I think everything should be done to include all backgrounds at a young age so by default the best people for the best jobs in this country are diverse.

I went to 'soccer schools' with Derby when I was a kid - all white. Nip two miles down the road and you'd find a culturally rich city that needs to integrate. Get everyone involved, that's all I'm saying.

The problem is, Let's Kick Racism Out Of Football is just an agenda to shoehorn black people in to jobs without really stopping to think about how it should be done. There's a root problem and it's at a much younger age, IMO.

Think you have missed my point, there are issues but it is not to the extent of what FIFA et al are making out. As ambitious said, there are far worse countries than us and it is as if because we are English we have to be chastised and other countries get a slap on the wrist.

[Asanovic]

Thing is Asanovic is FIFA talks about the racism in football here but national sides like Ukraine and Serbia get a slapped wrist.

I don't agree with forcing communities to integrate. People are different. They can't always mix. It's a fantasy.

And football shouldn't have to apologise for the slave trade. Just like Germany shouldn't have to have lots of Jewish managers. Nations, religions etc have been targeted throughout history. Native Americans, Jews, Christians, Pagans, Muslims etc

Hit the racism issues hard and you might stamp it out. Instead they look for racism where there is none.

Serbia get a fine. England starts restructuring it's employment scheme!!

Black people just aren't oppressed. It's just bullsh1t propaganda. In Africa day in and day out oppression exists. Has done for centuries. But it's not about race. It's about money. It's rich v poor.

Clubs will employ scumbags like Marlon King or Suarez. They'll back a racist or a rapist or a thief or a murderer if its serves in their best interest. It's about money. Always.

There aren't enough black managers? Well Im pretty sure that black people in this country aren't the majority. They also aren't the majority of players in English football.

Thing is (and I wouldn't be suprised if I was shot down for saying this but people aren't equal. African men tend to be dominant at some sports. Maybe it's the build or whatever. We aren't built the same. How many Asian builders do you see? Would you typically assume that Chinese people are short?

If I wanted a big, powerful and fast player should I watch the Copa America or would I be better in the African Nations?

There's divides. And instead of glossing over it I think we should embrace it. That means not being racist. Not making racism an issue. And punish actual open racism such as monkey chants by Serbia.

Like Morgan Freeman says. He's not black. He's American. The way to deal with racism is stop talking about it. What is The Society Of Black Lawyers?!?

It's people trying to force clubs to interview black candidates that are making racism an issue. There's no racism issue in there.

 

I get that mate, specially the championing of people who display racist behaviour, it really is dispicable.

 

Think there are two separate strands here - racism and inclusion of all ethnicities. Racism of any kind needs to be totally stamped out.

 

Inclusion is different - I think the points I have made pertain more to making football reflect our society than tackling racist abuse.

 

I look around my office of 10 and I see 3 Indians, a Chinese lad and two black women.

 

I go to the match and I see 10 or 11 white males. Hardly reflective of our society, is it?

 

BUT - the charities and organisations who are most vocal are the most damaging. No doubt.

[Uptherams]

Black people in this country come from mostly poor working class backgrounds. What is common with a poor working class background/upbringing is that opportunities are limited and you receive a standard form of education. Education is not treated as important as it is, especially when compared to other socio economic backgrounds. This association with education is even further weakened when you are good or talented at something non academic (football). A mindset of I am going to be a footballer so being scientifically literate is not important is created.

 

So when a football player finishes their career again their options are limited. Achieving coaching qualifications is by no means hard. But there is more to professional football league coaching and management than simply being an ex-footballer and having coaching qualifications.

 

What would ever make a person think that they are capable of managing a PL team with revenue in excess of £100m based on limited education. Oh that's right lack of education. 

[Bris Vegas]

Football chairmen think black players are not "educated enough" to become managers, says Birmingham academy coach Michael Johnson.

Chris Kiwomya's departure from Notts County leaves only three black managers in the Premier and Football Leagues.

"The stats are alarming. There does seem to be a trend that we are not getting opportunities," said Johnson.

 

"We have three black managers at the helm and when you look at boardroom level, we have none," Johnson told BBC Radio 5 live.

"I think it's a lack of education from the guys upstairs, the board members who seem to think that black players are OK to go and play for their club, but when it comes to managing or stepping upstairs into the boardroom, that might be a problem.

"I wouldn't say it's racist but I think there are some severe problems with some people maybe not thinking that a black player is educated enough to go upstairs in a boardroom capacity.

"A black player may be well thought of as a player, but may not be thought of as a manager in their eyes.

"I think it is a lot of ignorance on the part of some of the owners and people at boardroom level, who suggest we are not good enough to go in there and fill the boots in certain positions - especially at the Premier League and Championship levels."

[Bris Vegas]

It's not that you're not good enough Michael, it's because it just happens to be the person best qualified for that particular job at that particular time was white..

 

Nothing to do with race.. Stop talking about it.. For fecks sake

 

Also, if these guys have done their coaching badges why not join the pyramid near the bottom.. Only a select few get jobs at higher clubs because they're ex footballers, Paul Ince included.

[AndyinLiverpool]

I think racism in football in England isn't as bad as is made out, a couple of high profile cases in Suarez and Terry, and all of a sudden every fan, player, manager and chairman are racist if they mention words like monkey. As for other sports, why isn't there more black players or managers in them? Is it down to lack of opportunity at grass roots level? Are the players not being picked to advance their training? Are they not wanting to pursue a career in these other sports?

I'd say football is one of the least racist sectors of our society.

 

I read an interesting piece the other day about the McPhearson report, which defined racism in terms of offence taken by the victim or another person. Hence anyone can be 'offended', even, apparently when they are nowhere near the 'offence' or when they don't know for certain what was said (see Society of Black Lawyers, the; Clattenberg, Mark; Hodgson, Roy ad nauseam).

 

When self-appointed ****-stirers like the Society of Black Lawyers demand an inquiry into this or an investigation into that, they do so without evidence, which is very bad practice for lawyers, for a start.

[Shottaz]

Isn't there a higher percentage of black players now?  Surely in time we will have more black managers...

 

No need to force the issue.  Best person for the job at the time is all that matters.

[Mostyn6]

I'm controversial here, and I won't apologise for it. I know quite a lot of black people, grew up, worked and socialise with many. I'd consider myself friends with about 40+ black and mixed raced men. One thing is common amongst I'd say 90% of them, and the black and mixed-raced people I know (but don't consider friends), is that they are an easy stereotype. They revel in the glory of the gangster lifestyle. Glorified in being a bad boy, a player, a pimp, hardcore person shagging around and having a good time, the level of respect for people they actually know is a lot less than the respect they have for celebrities, rappers, etc.

 

I don't know many black/mixed raced people from well-off backgrounds admittedly, and I do know many white boys who are chavs and behave like they want to be bad and black. Which in itself sounds racist.

 

I ask this though, how many white England international footballers do you think would have this tattoo?:-

 

and what do you think inspired it?

 

"http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/20/article-0-19656CD5000005DC-783_634x741" alt="article-0-19656CD5000005DC-783_634x741.j">

[smiffy]

what % of players in the four leagues are non whites ?

[DCFC_17]

what % of players in the four leagues are non whites ?

 

4? i thought there were 5?

[Cisse]

Don't know Djibril.

Not Djibril. Häkkinen.

[NormantonRam]

Not Djibril. Häkkinen.

 

Mika ?

[Cisse]

Mika ?

Cisse.

[NormantonRam]

Cisse.

 

Hakkinen Cisse ?

[Cisse]

Hakkinen Cisse ?

That's the one. A local bloke who was rocking the place 40 years ago. They don't make men like that anymore.

[ronnieronalde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthvslBZQ4g

 

I might have to listen a couple of times before I know if I like it but it's good to know where the nickname comes from Cisse.

[Cisse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthvslBZQ4g

 

I might have to listen a couple of times before I know if I like it but it's good to know where the nickname comes from Cisse.

Do listen. The original Cisse was cool.    Unlike me.