fbsjt Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 My point was football isn't perfect whereby every single player is deserving of his place and there is a perfectly positive correlation between players' ability and the team and league they play in and for. For the record, I think Hughes is as good as James Ward-Prowse, and Stuart Pearce actually thinks he's better. Ward-Prowse is half a year older than him, playing regularly for Southampton, but he didn't get called up for England U21s. Does that prove anything? We no. I was using that example to say it proves nothing. All I can say is that taking away age and all things being equal, I believe that our best and most important player is Will Hughes. It's funny, everyone says that young kids can do no wrong but sometimes they're underrated. I watched Liverpool on Sunday where Sterling did as much if not more than Suarez. Henderson is the opposite of Hughes. He looked decent for Sunderland, he was ok and English and then everyone got an erection over him. All he does is sideways passes. Hughes' ability stretches way beyond that so for me he's already a better player, though very few Premier League managers would agree with me there. I agree, Hughes is are most important player at the moment, he has an influence on the whole game with his passing that keep the whole team ticking over and induces better football from others (i mean how many times against Birmingham did Roberts choose not to hoof the ball away and keep playing?). In that game Jacobs as an individual had the biggest direct impact on the game but i felt that Hughes helped Jacobs play better as the ball found him more. i think he may be better than Henderson at the moment but it is a hard comparison as he is a different type of midfielder and in a rough patch, a much better example of a midfielder that i think Hughes is similar to is Joe Allen in the championship and Prem (for Swansea) and he is very close to that level and Allen went for 15 million. i'm not saying that Hughes will go for 15 million or that Allen was worth that amount just that Hughes is reaching that level 3-4 years younger than Allen and if he keeps progressing he could be as good as the likes of Jack Wilshire who is meant to be saving English football single handedly. There are few players in our squad that can make a lot of the passes Hughes makes but he's the only one that can make them with perfect weight and inference that gives the receiving player the best option or most time etc .At the moment the sky is the limit for Hughes though he does need to learn how to tackle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Hughes played at the same level as Henderson for the Under 21s. I watched that game and Hughes literally walked up to Henderson and took the ball off him then picked a forward pass. He is better than Henderson at pretty much everything except heading, tackling and anything psychically related. Henderson 16 million Hughes....................... It's a big dilema as to what is the best way forward for the football club sell Hughes and reinvest or keep Hughes for as long as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rams_Forever86 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I agree, Hughes is are most important player at the moment, he has an influence on the whole game with his passing that keep the whole team ticking over and induces better football from others (i mean how many times against Birmingham did Roberts choose not to hoof the ball away and keep playing?). In that game Jacobs as an individual had the biggest direct impact on the game but i felt that Hughes helped Jacobs play better as the ball found him more. i think he may be better than Henderson at the moment but it is a hard comparison as he is a different type of midfielder and in a rough patch, a much better example of a midfielder that i think Hughes is similar to is Joe Allen in the championship and Prem (for Swansea) and he is very close to that level and Allen went for 15 million. i'm not saying that Hughes will go for 15 million or that Allen was worth that amount just that Hughes is reaching that level 3-4 years younger than Allen and if he keeps progressing he could be as good as the likes of Jack Wilshire who is meant to be saving English football single handedly. There are few players in our squad that can make a lot of the passes Hughes makes but he's the only one that can make them with perfect weight and inference that gives the receiving player the best option or most time etc .At the moment the sky is the limit for Hughes though he does need to learn how to tackle..... Hughes has everything he can pass,shoot and now goes in for crunching tackles inwhich he wins.I myself would compare him to gerrard without as many goals atm.If he is still with us should we get to the prem and he touches a ball in a premier league match whilst playing for derby his value will double.I would love to see mason bennett get a few games apparently hes very much like rooney in the way he comes deep to get the ball and can play the attacking midfielder role.If he got a bit of the praise then im sure it would take away these constant links with hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rams_Forever86 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Hughes played at the same level as Henderson for the Under 21s. I watched that game and Hughes literally walked up to Henderson and took the ball off him then picked a forward pass. He is better than Henderson at pretty much everything except heading, tackling and anything psychically related. Henderson 16 million Hughes....................... It's a big dilema as to what is the best way forward for the football club sell Hughes and reinvest or keep Hughes for as long as possible. Henderson was worth 16 million because hes played in the prem a number of times was a regular at sunderland and Ovbiously the massive interest on any english player.Hughes is no where near the finished product and who would pay 16m + for some they would have to work on.I still see him being here for the next 3 years at least his recent success in the media has only come due to his age which i believe is only because hes very mature.If we sell him now we would only get a small fee of that to spend the rest would help pay off the debts.If we had a bit of money i think people wouldnt link him with moves.The media believe Derby want to sell him rather clubs want to buy him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 At the end of the day, we know as Derby fans that if we sell Hughes for what ever money, he wont be replaced, the money will go in the GSE's back pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randombc Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 If Derby can aim to bring through one youth player a season, then the academy is doing more then a good job, this season oviously Hughes has come in, next season will probably be Bennett etc. Hopefully, these kids will either: a) improve us as a team, and help us get promotions 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> go for a few million to try and get us promotion either way it's a win win situation. I just hope the board have a bit of a backbone when the offers come rolling in, and don't jump at the first offer. Have a figure whether it be 3 million, 5 million or 10 million and stick to it! I think Clough will have a big role to play in saying if he goes, and for how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I agree, Hughes is are most important player at the moment, he has an influence on the whole game with his passing that keep the whole team ticking over and induces better football from others (i mean how many times against Birmingham did Roberts choose not to hoof the ball away and keep playing?). In that game Jacobs as an individual had the biggest direct impact on the game but i felt that Hughes helped Jacobs play better as the ball found him more. i think he may be better than Henderson at the moment but it is a hard comparison as he is a different type of midfielder and in a rough patch, a much better example of a midfielder that i think Hughes is similar to is Joe Allen in the championship and Prem (for Swansea) and he is very close to that level and Allen went for 15 million. i'm not saying that Hughes will go for 15 million or that Allen was worth that amount just that Hughes is reaching that level 3-4 years younger than Allen and if he keeps progressing he could be as good as the likes of Jack Wilshire who is meant to be saving English football single handedly. There are few players in our squad that can make a lot of the passes Hughes makes but he's the only one that can make them with perfect weight and inference that gives the receiving player the best option or most time etc .At the moment the sky is the limit for Hughes though he does need to learn how to tackle..... I was about to like that until I read the last sentence. I do personally believe hughes can tackle better than any of our other midfielders, and I think it's a shame that this isn't noticed by more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Hughes has everything he can pass,shoot and now goes in for crunching tackles inwhich he wins.I myself would compare him to gerrard without as many goals atm.If he is still with us should we get to the prem and he touches a ball in a premier league match whilst playing for derby his value will double.I would love to see mason bennett get a few games apparently hes very much like rooney in the way he comes deep to get the ball and can play the attacking midfielder role.If he got a bit of the praise then im sure it would take away these constant links with hughes. Gerrard? I personally couldn't think of two midfielders less similar. But what do you think is similar about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Henderson was worth 16 million because hes played in the prem a number of times was a regular at sunderland and Ovbiously the massive interest on any english player.Hughes is no where near the finished product and who would pay 16m + for some they would have to work on.I still see him being here for the next 3 years at least his recent success in the media has only come due to his age which i believe is only because hes very mature.If we sell him now we would only get a small fee of that to spend the rest would help pay off the debts.If we had a bit of money i think people wouldnt link him with moves.The media believe Derby want to sell him rather clubs want to buy him What would you say about Chamberlain then? He only played in LEAGUE ONE and Arsenal paid £15m for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 At the end of the day, we know as Derby fans that if we sell Hughes for what ever money, he wont be replaced, the money will go in the GSE's back pocket. Why have you even commented on this thread? Your comment wasn't even slightly contributing to the topic. But anyway, why will this money go into GSE's back pocket? Because as far as I remember, they've put quite a lot of money into the club already....yano what, I can't even be bothered debating this pointless accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Why have you even commented on this thread? Your comment wasn't even slightly contributing to the topic. But anyway, why will this money go into GSE's back pocket? Because as far as I remember, they've put quite a lot of money into the club already....yano what, I can't even be bothered debating this pointless accusation. apart from keogh for shackell, i cant remember the last time we replaced a key player. Commons ? Hulse ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 apart from keogh for shackell, i cant remember the last time we replaced a key player. Commons ? Hulse ? You forget Davies for Sammon? Anyway, we sold Commons for £300k and Hulse for £400k. Hardly going replace them with superstars are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I was about to like that until I read the last sentence. I do personally believe hughes can tackle better than any of our other midfielders, and I think it's a shame that this isn't noticed by more people. I agree. People were claiming that he was pulling out of tackles against Birmingham. He didn't and his approach to winning the ball in the majority of these situations was spot on. Stayed on his feet and went in with the side of his foot. Doing this means that he isn't just trying to win the tackle but also control the ball. If you win the ball going into tackles like he does you come away with the ball, not by luck and can counter attack. Meanwhile other players would be rolling around on the floor after sliding in with the ball not being in their possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 You forget Davies for Sammon? Anyway, we sold Commons for £300k and Hulse for £400k. Hardly going replace them with superstars are we? [url=http://www.derbycountyblog.com/commons-sense-in-cutting-costs/]http://www.derbycountyblog.com/commons-sense-in-cutting-costs/ Fielding, Ward and Theo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbsjt Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I was about to like that until I read the last sentence. I do personally believe hughes can tackle better than any of our other midfielders, and I think it's a shame that this isn't noticed by more people. my main point is that that i think it's the weakest part of his game if he were to become a midfield dynamo rather than a CAM. I know that he can tackle but ever since he took a boot to the face against forest i feel like he's holding back a bit or pulling out. Against Birmingham there looked to be a few 50/50s where he wasn't fully committed where i feel the likes of Wilshire and Gerrard would of been in there getting stuck in.. It may be my imagination (and i haven't seen any of the game on sky to get a better look) but if i'm right then i don't think it will trouble him to long and i'll be able to see how good he really is. As for your point about our other midfielders Hughes doesn't have to do much to be better tacklers than them. Against Birmingham it felt like Jacobs put in more tackles from the wing than Bryson did from the center of midfield, and don't get me started on the way Hendrick likes to jog next to an attacking player rather than cleaning him out. This season at pride park I've seen two very similar goals conceded at home, the second against Sheffield Wednesday and the second against Birmingham where a player is running across the middle of the pitch 30 yards out from goal and our midfield chose to put a bit of pressure on rather than a tackle, the player picks a pass out wide, the ball gets crossed in, and goal When i see our other midfielders try and tackle it makes me wish we still has Savage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 my main point is that that i think it's the weakest part of his game if he were to become a midfield dynamo rather than a CAM. I know that he can tackle but ever since he took a boot to the face against forest i feel like he's holding back a bit or pulling out. Against Birmingham there looked to be a few 50/50s where he wasn't fully committed where i feel the likes of Wilshire and Gerrard would of been in there getting stuck in.. It may be my imagination (and i haven't seen any of the game on sky to get a better look) but if i'm right then i don't think it will trouble him to long and i'll be able to see how good he really is. As for your point about our other midfielders Hughes doesn't have to do much to be better tacklers than them. Against Birmingham it felt like Jacobs put in more tackles from the wing than Bryson did from the center of midfield, and don't get me started on the way Hendrick likes to jog next to an attacking player rather than cleaning him out. This season at pride park I've seen two very similar goals conceded at home, the second against Sheffield Wednesday and the second against Birmingham where a player is running across the middle of the pitch 30 yards out from goal and our midfield chose to put a bit of pressure on rather than a tackle, the player picks a pass out wide, the ball gets crossed in, and goal When i see our other midfielders try and tackle it makes me wish we still has Savage... We don't want Hughes to have their injury record. The typical hard tackling midfielder is totally dispensable. In a squad you should have at least one. These types of players tend to miss more games than they play due to suspension and injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbsjt Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 We don't want Hughes to have their injury record. The typical hard tackling midfielder is totally dispensable. In a squad you should have at least one. These types of players tend to miss more games than they play due to suspension and injury. All i'm trying to say is that Hughes doesn't have to do much to be able to tackle better than our other midfielders as none of them are the "typical hard tackling" type so saying that he's the best tackler isn't the greatest compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rams_Forever86 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What would you say about Chamberlain then? He only played in LEAGUE ONE and Arsenal paid £15m for him? 8m-with 4m in extras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 8m-with 4m in extras nuffin that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 my main point is that that i think it's the weakest part of his game if he were to become a midfield dynamo rather than a CAM. I know that he can tackle but ever since he took a boot to the face against forest i feel like he's holding back a bit or pulling out. Against Birmingham there looked to be a few 50/50s where he wasn't fully committed where i feel the likes of Wilshire and Gerrard would of been in there getting stuck in.. It may be my imagination (and i haven't seen any of the game on sky to get a better look) but if i'm right then i don't think it will trouble him to long and i'll be able to see how good he really is. As for your point about our other midfielders Hughes doesn't have to do much to be better tacklers than them. Against Birmingham it felt like Jacobs put in more tackles from the wing than Bryson did from the center of midfield, and don't get me started on the way Hendrick likes to jog next to an attacking player rather than cleaning him out. This season at pride park I've seen two very similar goals conceded at home, the second against Sheffield Wednesday and the second against Birmingham where a player is running across the middle of the pitch 30 yards out from goal and our midfield chose to put a bit of pressure on rather than a tackle, the player picks a pass out wide, the ball gets crossed in, and goal When i see our other midfielders try and tackle it makes me wish we still has Savage... I agree with the pulling out of tackles part. I was watching the Birmingham game at university with a couple of housemates and they all pointed it out on a couple of occasions. I think he's still probably got some growing to do though so a bit more confidence in his physicality should come with time. That's also one of the reasons we should hold on to him for a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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