Ambitious Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 To be honest I'm not really that keen on mangers or players going back to former clubs, it rarely seems to work out (although there are exceptions of course). Personally I would have sacked Clough last summer as it became clear to me that he had taken us as far as he could. However, while he is in charge he will have my full support as do the team- that doesn't mean that I'm not able to make judgements on his performance or criticise when necessary. Now…a question for you, as a Clough fan. How many more seasons of midtable finishes would you put up with before you would be asking for a change? Makes no odds to me really, but if we brought in a new manager I'd be more fearful of going down, than optimistic of going up (personally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Don't reply to me then man, seriously nobody is forcing you too. Tito Villa was brought from Tecos UAG for two million and was sold for 1.7m. How's that a profit? Albert was keen to point out on one of the previous pages/threads (I've lost track) that 300,000 is a huge sum; simply because that's the amount off the original Maguire fee I first quoted, so that's a big sum loss there alone if that's the case... Can't win really can I? Name me a list of players whom Clough has brought in and sold for a profit then or the amount we paid ; I'll get you started with Brayford... Why are you holding against Clough the fees paid out for players before he became manager? Villa was purchased by Jewell - so I can only assume that seeing as you are biting Clough's head off over losing 300 grand on him, you value Paul Jewell's judgement of a player? Christ on a bloody bike. You are obsessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Why are you holding against Clough the fees paid out for players before he became manager? Villa was purchased by Jewell - so I can only assume that seeing as you are biting Clough's head off over losing 300 grand on him, you value Paul Jewell's judgement of a player? Christ on a bloody bike. You are obsessed. I didn't originally mention Villa for a start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm always intriged to who people who want Clough out, actually want in though? so I'm interested to hear your take - would you like Burley back for another spell? Dont be intrigued. I want Clough out but couldnt tell you whom I would want in (as any suggestions would obviously draw derision from my peers on here). Rather me say that you can persevere with someone in any role for so long, there has to become a time though when you finally admit that things will not change under them, that they will never push the next level after giving them ample opportunities - either you can ignore this or do the hard thing and let them go. Am just about at this stage with Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Sammon was about £1.2 million if the rumours are true, Barker £950k, Bailey and Brayford were just shy of a million together, whilst Fielding was supposedly around the £400k mark, as was Porter and Moxey. At this level those are hardly huge transfer deals, and you've managed to list a handful of them over Nigel's time here.As for "only 300,000 off", are you kidding me?! Firstly, you ignored that the club got most of the money back. Secondly, £300k off here is a whopping 75% error. That's like trying to get from Derby to London, and ending up in Dunkirk, then passing it off as a "small error". Where do you get your figures from Albert? I thought/heard we didn't get half back for what we paid for maguire, I have no inside source or anything that can back that up, but I'm guessing you have ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 LeedsCityRam I would argue Clough hasn't been backed in the transfer market. He's always had to generate his own transfer and wages budget by selling players or letting players go. And he certainly doesn't have anywhere near a top 6 budget for 2013/14 when you look at several other Championship clubs. If Clough gets top 6 this season it will have been an excellent effort against the odds in my opinion. I would agree that he hasn't ever had a top 6 budget - either in terms of wages or transfers. There's a lot of stupid chairmen in this division with pockets larger than their IQs I would say that he has been backed in the transfer market though in so far as he has never been forced to sell his best players (unless they've come to the end of their contract & we've decided to cash in) and he has signed at least 3 players for £1m plus (Shackell, Keogh & Sammon). Furthermore, this summer we have gone & bought before he has had to sell anyone. There's a lot of clubs in this division who don't even get the proceeds of their sales to re-invest - Leeds & Blackpool spring instantly to mind. You're also assuming that the quantity of money spent is proportionate to the quality of a team. Of course it certainly helps but looking at some of the tightly run clubs that have got promoted out of this division & some of the big-spending clubs that have not achieved success - it is not always the case. I hate to constantly hark back but George Burley had far harsher financial restraints when he was here & still made the playoffs. Don't get me wrong - I'm a Clough fan. I like the guy, I admire his methods & I love the affection he has for our club. But the patience that we as a fanbase have shown throughout his 4 & half years needs repaying. And that time is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 1 point outside the relegation zone under GB, closest we've been under NC is 7 points. but don't let facts get in your way of proving a point. also, I went to every game bar 4 during the 52 point season, so don't bother telling me how great we were - that was the worst season (bar the premier league one) for me as a Derby fan, we were dreadful - and our budget comparable to a lot of teams was pretty significant at the time! but, I don't want to refresh anyones memory - I'm sure the games like the 3-0 loss at home to stoke, getting panned 3-0 by crewe away from home and 4-0 to norwich has hopefully been scrubbed from the mind after nearly a decade on! LOL you spout such rubbish Fact is, under GB, we lost 20 games that season.. Under your darling Clough, we lost 23.. And as for budgets.. That team under Clough included Ayala, Porter, Barker, Brayford, Bueno, Bailey, B.Davies, L.Croft, J.Ward.. Were all of these given to us for free? Or did we spend cash on them? Now that GB team.. The starting line-up in our penultimate game.. Grant, Kenna, Mawene, Johnson, Jackson, Tudgay, Taylor, Huddlestone, Reich, Manel, Peschisolido. Subs: Oakes, Mills, Bolder, Holmes, Junior. Erm.. Yeh budgets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 LOL you spout such rubbish Fact is, under GB, we lost 20 games that season.. Under your darling Clough, we lost 23.. And as for budgets.. That team under Clough included Ayala, Porter, Barker, Brayford, Bueno, Bailey, B.Davies, L.Croft, J.Ward.. Were all of these given to us for free? Or did we spend cash on them? Now that GB team.. The starting line-up in our penultimate game.. Grant, Kenna, Mawene, Johnson, Jackson, Tudgay, Taylor, Huddlestone, Reich, Manel, Peschisolido. Subs: Oakes, Mills, Bolder, Holmes, Junior. Erm.. Yeh budgets Kenna, Mawene, Johnson, Taylor, Reich and Manel were players from the top division (of their country) we signed Reich after he had helped his team win the bundesliga. So yeah, back then - in comparison with everyone else, we were in a much, much better position! not to mention that was the Costa loan year, he would have cost us a fair bit. Not to piss on your chips again, but yeah, you're trying to compare 2003 with 2009, try comparing 2009 with 2009 and 2003 with 2003 - but that wouldn't suit your agenda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Kenna, Mawene, Johnson, Taylor, Reich and Manel were players from the top division (of their country) we signed Reich after he had helped his team win the bundesliga. So yeah, back then - in comparison with everyone else, we were in a much, much better position! not to mention that was the Costa loan year, he would have cost us a fair bit. Not to piss on your chips again, but yeah, you're trying to compare 2003 with 2009, try comparing 2009 with 2009 and 2003 with 2003 - but that wouldn't suit your agenda! Haha nice try at hiding the facts.. Came from their top divisions? And? That NC side cost far more than the GB side And much better position? What do you mean by this? Are you saying GB inherited a better side? Don't worry, you're not pissing on my chips.. Your posting rubbish, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm always intriged to who people who want Clough out, actually want in though? so I'm interested to hear your take - would you like Burley back for another spell? You can ask that for a long time but the anti Clough brigade will side step it in case they put someone forward who turns out to be less than successful.You might get an answer or two involving the manager of the Champions League winners and such like but the crunch questions [who could we afford, who would be better than Clough under the same circumstances] will be mainly avoided. The reason is fairly simple - who's better and available and wants to work within budget? Not many come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Haha nice try at hiding the facts.. Came from their top divisions? And? That NC side cost far more than the GB side And much better position? What do you mean by this? Are you saying GB inherited a better side? Don't worry, you're not pissing on my chips.. Your posting rubbish, again. No, but it's a different game now than it was then - and you know it, but you're just fitting it in with your agenda. 300k nowadays isn't what is was back then, and as I said - if we went out and signed top flight players, even if they're free they're going to cost a lot more than going into the lower leagues. You think Ian Taylor would have been relatively cheap? no chance - it would be similar to signing Danny Murphy nowadays, and as for Reich, who had a german cap as well as two bundesliga titles - I bet he would have been relatively cheap. Obviously trying to compare a 2003 to a 2009 budget is just utter ********, but you don't seem to post anything else. Why don't you comment on more games you haven't seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Ayala, Bueno, Jones, Hunt, Barazite, Livermoore, Carroll, Bannan, Vaughan, Stoor, Vidal, Cywka, Sunu Were all players from top division sides weren't they? George Burley worked wonders here on a nothing budget. He also had one of the best scouts in the country in Simon Hunt. Who's Clough got bar Andy Pandy and Jimmy the Subway cleaner to look at such gems? Nobody can argue Bisgaard, Idiakez, Rasiak being absolute stella free signings, likewise with him being on a much tighter budget than Clough currently is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 That's just club top scorer... He's 22/1 for league top scorer... 40/1 at BetVictor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 The fact still remains- Burley transformed us from relegation candidates to play offs in no time at all and with practically no budget. Clough has had 5 years and never once looked like finishing in the play offs! You tell Ambitious that there is no way that he can no what Clough's budget is and then in the next sentence tell him that Burley got us in to the play offs with practically no budget?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 You can ask that for a long time but the anti Clough brigade will side step it in case they put someone forward who turns out to be less than successful.You might get an answer or two involving the manager of the Champions League winners and such like but the crunch questions [who could we afford, who would be better than Clough under the same circumstances] will be mainly avoided. The reason is fairly simple - who's better and available and wants to work within budget? Not many come to mind. I refer you to my previous quote. Am not anti-anyone if I see a person in a role flat-lining after making a promising start -it's called progression. Clough has made a good start saving us from relegation and then cutting the wage bill but thats history now, its gone, he cannot keep dining out on previous achievements for the rest of his tenure, he needs to start adding extra accolades onto his CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I refer you to my previous quote. Am not anti-anyone if I see a person in a role flat-lining after making a promising start -it's called progression. Clough has made a good start saving us from relegation and then cutting the wage bill but thats history now, its gone, he cannot keep dining out on previous achievements for the rest of his tenure, he needs to start adding extra accolades onto his CV. I didn't say you were. I said that the anti Clough brigade [whoever they are] tend not to offer any realistic alternatives when they suggest it's time for Clough to walk the plank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 What's not realistic about Di Matteo, Appleton, Curbishley, O'Neil, Hoddle? There's no such thing as the "anti-Clough brigade", it's called "I've got a different opinion than you mate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 For all of Burley's good work it probably wasn't the best idea for him to knock up Tudgay's wife. And on that sole reasoning alone; Clough>Burley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 For all of Burley's good work it probably wasn't the best idea for him to knock up Tudgay's wife. And on that sole reasoning alone; Clough>Burleyjohn Terry's view: Clough<Burley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 No, but it's a different game now than it was then - and you know it, but you're just fitting it in with your agenda. 300k nowadays isn't what is was back then, and as I said - if we went out and signed top flight players, even if they're free they're going to cost a lot more than going into the lower leagues. You think Ian Taylor would have been relatively cheap? no chance - it would be similar to signing Danny Murphy nowadays, and as for Reich, who had a german cap as well as two bundesliga titles - I bet he would have been relatively cheap. Obviously trying to compare a 2003 to a 2009 budget is just utter ********, but you don't seem to post anything else. Why don't you comment on more games you haven't seen? Like signing Danny Murphy now? What planet are you on? Reich did have a German cap and two Bundesliga titles.. And? Edgar Davids has played for Palace and Boston.. What do you think they were paying him $50k a week? And trying to compare a 2003 budget to a 2009 budget? Do you think there are massive differences? Damien Duff went from Blackburn to Chelsea for $17mill that summer.. What do you think that's like $51mill in today's world? You're laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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