Mostyn6 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'm so confused. I'd have Conor Sammon over Martin every single day, of every single week.. in every single game. Martin looks to be like a talented roadcone... he is a tidy footballer, but **** me.. move a bit! If you was chopping down a tree, would you choose an axe or a chainsaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randombc Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I don't really remember Martin missing any glaring opportunities, when he get chances he usually does take them. I think he's a talented footballer and with a pre-season behind him, he'd be a lot sharper/fitter. He's very strong, and strengh isn't something we're known for. Just because he doesn't run around a lot, doesn't make him a bad player, he doesnt lose the ball often, he's calm in possession and an intelligent footballer. The team looks a lot better when he's playing. I'd rather have him than Robinson, even if he doesn't score as many, when the ball goes to him, the ball tends to stay with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 If you was chopping down a tree, would you choose an axe or a chainsaw? Most certainly go for a chainsaw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcFc Dyycheee Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Martin would be good if he was upfront with a striker that makes good runs and scores goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Most certainly go for a chainsaw... it may be rather crude, but in my analogy, Martin is the chainsaw.... does the same job but with less effort and more accuracy and effectiveness. Sammon is the axe.... requires lots of effort to eventually achieve but sometimes the blade is too blunt and is less accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Before I start, I well say, conor sammon had an excellent game today...for conor sammon. Hens not a great footballer and we certainly don't need another thread about this. He created the first excellently, and put himself about. He did everything but be a goalscorer. But we now except thats not what he is. Anyway. Recently there have been several comments about how poor chris martin is. I didn't bite and ignored. Chris martin is an excellent footballer. And as a clough outer, I applaud nigel for getting him in. credit where it's due nige. Great signing. The stupid thing about football fans is they applaud all huff and no puff. Martin doesn't break his back closing down the goalie, like sammon, because he doesnt need too. He holds.the ball, wins headers, ands given half a yard will bang in a goal. hes clinical. I would sign and invest on a goalscorer to play off him. And you may have your answer. "God, I wish Chris Martin could get the support from the fans Sammon got" Is basically your post. Do you realise how stupid that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 If that's what you got from my post, I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Martin definitely looks lazy, and I do understand there's a difference between that and intelligence. His goal was great yesterday but he's got the polar opposite problem to Sammon in terms of workrate/ability to finish balance. If they met in the middle somewhere we'd have 2 very good Championship level strikers. He's probably rusty and needs a summer of training and we might see a different player. I'd sign him, but with caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 If that's what you got from my post, I give up. 'The stupid thing about football fans is they applaud all huff and no puff. Martin doesn't break his back closing down the goalie, like sammon, because he doesnt need too.' So, all our fab fans have been cheering our Conor all year long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I think ideally we should have 2 capable of leading the line and 2 play off strikers in the matchday squad.I quite like Martin,but the fact that he hasn't achieved (at his age) what someone of his ability should have,is a concern.Having said that,I don't think anyone else could have scored the goal he got on Sat -Savies would have been capable of it. On balance,I'd go for Martin (and hope he doesn't turn out to be one we end up farming out on loan) and concentrate on a goalscorer with any real cash we have.The problem with getting a class goalscorer is that he might block Mason's progress.If he were any good,barring injury,he'd probably play most games.Still,I suppose Mason could make some cameo appearances-wouldn't want to see him farmed out to the right if he has the potential to be a good striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 He has talent, no doubt, but not sure he's suited to what we want. If we're not going to play 2 right up front, I'd like to see Sammon play where he does, a bit deeper, and have someone more clinical in front of goal playing in front of Sammon to get onto his flick ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorneoRam Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I think most Derby fans have no issue supporting a player who is talented but not a runner, we have had a few, commons most recently, kinky, strupar before that. Difference is even though they didn't chase they wanted to be in the thick of it and would ask for the ball in dangerous areas. My issue with Martin is that he seems to just drop out of the game when he is not playing well, I don't mind him not running, I do mind him not seeming to want to be involved or as some have said, just getting mardy. I do think he has ability though and I think if he signs it will be because clough can see a willingness, with commons I remember he just made him run up hills in pre season, pissed him off no end but cloughs point was he could not produce magic on the ball if he was tired running 20 yards to get it, worked to, that year when he went to Celtic is the best he has been. I am still undecided on him but he has started every game so you have to assume NC views him as better than anything else we have, he offers something different but if his attitude isn't right I don't think he is good enough to be a problem player whereas I thought commons (in this league) was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 it astounds me how many people can confuse intelligence with laziness! Intelligent players don't run around like headless chickens. Neither do lazy ones. I'm not saying that he is necessarily, though he doesn't look very mobile. And the things he is feted for, hold up play, bringing others in, passing, have been ok but in the last few games very average. Has he improved the team? Is he better than Jacobs or ward up front? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 'The stupid thing about football fans is they applaud all huff and no puff. Martin doesn't break his back closing down the goalie, like sammon, because he doesnt need too.' So, all our fab fans have been cheering our Conor all year long? No. And I didn't say they had. Martin is called lazy a lot. I simply made the point that he doesnt need to do the running that sammon does. I used sammon as an example because he's the other forward, and has an extremely high work rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector was the best Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Neither do lazy ones. I'm not saying that he is necessarily, though he doesn't look very mobile. And the things he is feted for, hold up play, bringing others in, passing, have been ok but in the last few games very average. Has he improved the team? Is he better than Jacobs or ward up front? I don't think so. and is this the best we can hope for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 and is this the best we can hope for? Not if we want top 6, no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I think most Derby fans have no issue supporting a player who is talented but not a runner, we have had a few, commons most recently, kinky, strupar before that. Difference is even though they didn't chase they wanted to be in the thick of it and would ask for the ball in dangerous areas. My issue with Martin is that he seems to just drop out of the game when he is not playing well, I don't mind him not running, I do mind him not seeming to want to be involved or as some have said, just getting mardy. I do think he has ability though and I think if he signs it will be because clough can see a willingness, with commons I remember he just made him run up hills in pre season, pissed him off no end but cloughs point was he could not produce magic on the ball if he was tired running 20 yards to get it, worked to, that year when he went to Celtic is the best he has been. I am still undecided on him but he has started every game so you have to assume NC views him as better than anything else we have, he offers something different but if his attitude isn't right I don't think he is good enough to be a problem player whereas I thought commons (in this league) was. I think if Clough signs him up,for me it's just confirmation he wants to play the passing game.Martin won't go chasing after wildly misplaced passes,he needs balls played into him when his ability will come to the fore.Having a fit Hughes in the side would help considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 it may be rather crude, but in my analogy, Martin is the chainsaw.... does the same job but with less effort and more accuracy and effectiveness. Sammon is the axe.... requires lots of effort to eventually achieve but sometimes the blade is too blunt and is less accurate. Sammon makes defenders work hard no matter what, even if he is having the worst game of his life he won't stop running - Martin will be a pivotal point in the team where he'll play with his back to goal. I think Martin is okay, and think if played enough he'll score goals... a similar player to rob hulse if you like, but, he needs to offer a little bit more for instance I don't think Martin is the sort of player that will create space for others whereas Sammon does, I think together they're not bad... but I feel if we're going to press on and improve for next season, we need better. We need someone who'll have the same qualities as Martin, but with that extra bit of movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 He's also always on his ar$e, not his fault if he's fouled but he should be able to be more stable with how much weight he's got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Maybe that movement will come after a solid preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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