Clough story on bbc website

[G STAR RAM]

Believe me, I do read what other people on here say, if anything I spend too long doing so.

Speaking of the direct points you raised though:

Brayford in the centre, this has been discussed at length. Gjokaj was not used most likely because Clough didn't want a defence with 2 players with less than 5 Championship games between them. With Hoganson at fullback it would have been madness to have Gjokaj along side him at centrehalf, it was also a bad time to throw a second youngster in, although injuries have brought him in now and he's done alright. Brayford is a very accomplished centrehalf and Clough should know this, overseeing his development as a young player. In fact, Brayford has played of the order of 200 games under Clough and from what I can tell, more than 7 seasons. Now, maybe it's just me, but it seems that Clough should have a fair idea about Brayford abilities.

As for Bryson, that one was pretty stock standard as well. He can certainly do a job outwide, and he's better defensively than Jacobs. From what I could tell it was a case of having the better player on the park and a bit more cover for the defence. Madness I know...

Our memories are silly things, we cling to them like they are worth the World, but they are easily fooled and heavily biased to what is remembered rather than what is seen, that's why I like stats and other metrics. What we see is all well and good, but the vast majority of what we see doesn't even get processed, let alone remembered. If you think you have an eidetic memory, that's fine, but I'd suggest seeing a medical professional of some kind to confirm it before you brag about it. If not, then I guess you're like the rest of us and actually have the same flawed memory, in which case I'd suggest taking a bit of time to consider what it is that you remember exactly and realise that if there is information out there to re-evaluate what you think you 'know', sometimes it's worth taking the time.

 

I think without knowing it you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Clough will always play his 11 best players rather than his best team.

[top 6 finish]

I heard we paid a reported fee of undisclosed.

You weren't supposed to disclose that.

[Albert]

I think without knowing it you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Clough will always play his 11 best players rather than his best team.

I think you've completely missed the point. You also seem to have just ignored what was written and made your own up if you think that anything I said came close to saying "Clough will always play his 11 best player rather than his best team". On the games in question there was nothing to say that the team wasn't better with Bryson out wide, where he could offer more cover for the defence, or Brayford in the centre, where he is very accomplished (and we lacked another appropriate option). But that's fine...

[rsmini]

I think the club went down preparation for FFP (that old chestnut) far to early and should have concentrated trying to give the manager the funds he needed for a promotion push. That way Mr Clough could have brought in better quality players with more experience.

 

Sam Rush has admitted to a blogger yesterday that we need an older head in midfield etc. With more support from the Glick era instead of pushing FFP we could be far higher now. Then you would all be singing Cloughs praises

[davenportram]

Got to be honest haven't read this thread because i think it is sprung out of a desperate pkea that clough will be going in the summer and that he has fallen out with Rush etc..

where or what implies he will be going soon or he feels his tine is up? The only sort of timescale mentioned is a few Years - not months or weeks.

[Albert]

Got to be honest haven't read this thread because i think it is sprung out of a desperate pkea that clough will be going in the summer and that he has fallen out with Rush etc..

where or what implies he will be going soon or he feels his tine is up? The only sort of timescale mentioned is a few Years - not months or weeks.

Exactly, it seems to imply that Clough isn't assuming that he'll be here beyond his contract, which is hardly unusual.

[G STAR RAM]

I think you've completely missed the point. You also seem to have just ignored what was written and made your own up if you think that anything I said came close to saying "Clough will always play his 11 best player rather than his best team". On the games in question there was nothing to say that the team wasn't better with Bryson out wide, where he could offer more cover for the defence, or Brayford in the centre, where he is very accomplished (and we lacked another appropriate option). But that's fine...

 

I didn't miss the point. Read every word you wrote but didn't agree with it but didn't see the need to make my point again.

 

Bryson looked poor on the left and this should have been spotted withing about half an hour of trying it.

 

Not only is his energy missed but also he is often the closest person to Sammon and often picks up lot of balls that bounce of him.

 

Moving Brayford to centre back pretty much extinguished our attacking threat on the right which had been the focal point of our attack during our purple patch. There was no need to move him there with Gjokaj sat on the bench.

[ronnieronalde]

Got to be honest haven't read this thread because i think it is sprung out of a desperate pkea that clough will be going in the summer and that he has fallen out with Rush etc..

where or what implies he will be going soon or he feels his tine is up? The only sort of timescale mentioned is a few Years - not months or weeks.

 

It's pretty much the same as the article that was printed yesterday with "clough admitting we're in a relegation battle", then when you read the article there is NOT ONE MENTION from clough of the fact he's admitting we're in a battle at all.

 

That's what frustrates me. People trying to find any angle to **** stir.

 

I understand it from Forest wind ups but I don't understand it from Derby fans.

[Albert]

I didn't miss the point. Read every word you wrote but didn't agree with it but didn't see the need to make my point again.

 

Bryson looked poor on the left and this should have been spotted withing about half an hour of trying it.

 

Not only is his energy missed but also he is often the closest person to Sammon and often picks up lot of balls that bounce of him.

 

Moving Brayford to centre back pretty much extinguished our attacking threat on the right which had been the focal point of our attack during our purple patch. There was no need to move him there with Gjokaj sat on the bench.

You completely missed the point here. The issues here:

Bryson:

- It was a choice of him or Jacobs on the left, he wasn't going to be played in the middle that day

- He was a better option as he offered offered energy, as you pointed out, but more importantly, he offers more in defence than Jacobs

Brayford:

- Gjokaj wasn't an option due to Hoganson also playing

- With this in mind Brayford was the best option to play at centrehalf

It's not exactly complicated, and already covered before, but you've ignored that in favour of reiterating points that have already been answered with no response as to why these are invalid.

[networker1884]

It's pretty much the same as the article that was printed yesterday with "clough admitting we're in a relegation battle", then when you read the article there is NOT ONE MENTION from clough of the fact he's admitting we're in a battle at all.

 

That's what frustrates me. People trying to find any angle to **** stir.

 

I understand it from Forest wind ups but I don't understand it from Derby fans.

I don't think people are trying to **** stir. Personally it bothers me that Clough is speaking about the end to his Derby career. Surely you understand that people are surprised that it has come up so suddenly? 4 years talking about the the future being bright, and now he's sounding like his days are limited? Where's the wind up in that?

[davenportram]

I don't think people are trying to **** stir. Personally it bothers me that Clough is speaking about the end to his Derby career. Surely you understand that people are surprised that it has come up so suddenly? 4 years talking about the the future being bright, and now he's sounding like his days are limited? Where's the wind up in that?

hes still saying the future us bright, and it will be whoever comes in next unless they change things.

[ronnieronalde]

I don't think people are trying to **** stir. Personally it bothers me that Clough is speaking about the end to his Derby career. Surely you understand that people are surprised that it has come up so suddenly? 4 years talking about the the future being bright, and now he's sounding like his days are limited? Where's the wind up in that?

Again I find myself defending a post when you read what you want to read. The wind up I was talking about was yesterdays article with "clough admitting" we were in a relegation fight.

 

It bothers you about Clough speaking about the end of his Derby career but 150 people on here do that every week and are encouraged to carry on doing so.

 

He hasn's put a time scale on it at all in that interview. All he's said is that they're looking at the long term but might not be around to see the 13 year olds break into the first team.

 

With 50% of fans saying they want him out, I don't think it's surprising that he may not feel too secure.

[Albert]

I don't think people are trying to **** stir. Personally it bothers me that Clough is speaking about the end to his Derby career. Surely you understand that people are surprised that it has come up so suddenly? 4 years talking about the the future being bright, and now he's sounding like his days are limited? Where's the wind up in that?

It could just be a bit out of context. He's talking about young players, then mentions that he mightn't be around when they are first team players. In the case of just the 13 year olds, he might be talking a full 7 years down the line. In fact, from the context he might be talking about us building up the academy and talking about keeping that going for well after he's gone, which would be an undefined length of time. A lot of things could be read into it.

That said, it does seem to speak to some kind of worry about making sure that the club do the right thing going forward. I guess we'll know soon enough.

[G STAR RAM]

You completely missed the point here. The issues here:

Bryson:

- It was a choice of him or Jacobs on the left, he wasn't going to be played in the middle that day

- He was a better option as he offered offered energy, as you pointed out, but more importantly, he offers more in defence than Jacobs

Not agreed. Ward, Bennett and Freeman are all more than capable of playing that role also. Earlier on in the season at home we were an attacking team and it worked why change it? Buxton offers energy and is defensive but I would not consider playing him there because it is a position he is not familiar with.

Brayford:

- Gjokaj wasn't an option due to Hoganson also playing

- With this in mind Brayford was the best option to play at centrehalf

Gjokaj wasn't an option? Well why have him in the squad then? It's like saying playing Hughes and Hendrick together this season wasn't an option.

It's not exactly complicated, and already covered before, but you've ignored that in favour of reiterating points that have already been answered with no response as to why these are invalid.

Sticking with winning formulas isn't complicated, that's been covered by many fans but has been ignored by NC in favour of trying things which have continually failed yet he gives no reason for sticking to his guns.

[Silver]

I thought we signed Bryson primarily as a left midfielder as that was the position he played for Kilmarnock?

 

I agree that he looks better in the centre but I think Nigel thinks he got himself a left midfielder...

[networker1884]

1.Again I find myself defending a post when you read what you want to read.

 

2.The wind up I was talking about was yesterdays article with "clough admitting" we were in a relegation fight.

 

3.It bothers you about Clough speaking about the end of his Derby career but 150 people on here do that every week and are encouraged to carry on doing so.

 

4. He hasn's put a time scale on it at all in that interview. All he's said is that they're looking at the long term but might not be around to see the 13 year olds break into the first team.

 

5. With 50% of fans saying they want him out, I don't think it's surprising that he may not feel too secure.

1. I've never spoken to you before. I'm also not not attacking you, just explaining my view of the article and why I disagree with it being wind-up material.

2.As far as I was concerned you were talking about both articles. I've read it again and haven't changed my mind.

3. I don't get the relevance. Why should 150 people on a forum bother me? They aren't important. Clough is.

4. I know he hasn't put a timescale on it, hence all I was saying that perhaps it is the shock that he's publicly announcing his future?

5. Seems like pure presumption? Not sure where this figure has come from?

 

Sorry if I gave off the wrong impression in my last response, my aim was simply to give my view on the issue.

[Albert]

Not agreed. Ward, Bennett and Freeman are all more than capable of playing that role also. Earlier on in the season at home we were an attacking team and it worked why change it? Buxton offers energy and is defensive but I would not consider playing him there because it is a position he is not familiar with.

Gjokaj wasn't an option? Well why have him in the squad then? It's like saying playing Hughes and Hendrick together this season wasn't an option.

Sticking with winning formulas isn't complicated, that's been covered by many fans but has been ignored by NC in favour of trying things which have continually failed yet he gives no reason for sticking to his guns.

 

Ward has been played as a striker a lot this season, and it was a better option to keep him there while he was scoring, see the last point you raised about "sticking with winning formulas".

Bennett is a striker, playing him on the left would be quite inappropriate as well with Hoganson at leftback. Having a combination on the left hand side with an average age below 18 would be widely inappropriate.

Freeman at left midfield? What? I know he can play at leftback, as well as right midfield, but he's primarily a rightback and was playing there on the evening in question.

You'll notice that Gjokaj wasn't played until after Roberts was back to replace Hoganson. This isn't complicated, it's in fact very simple, you just seem to keep ignoring this.

Sticking by your "winning formulas" is complicated when you keep getting injuries and need to change something as you can't just field the same XI as last week.

[ronnieronalde]

1. I've never spoken to you before. I'm also not not attacking you, just explaining my view of the article and why I disagree with it being wind-up material.

2.As far as I was concerned you were talking about both articles. I've read it again and haven't changed my mind.

3. I don't get the relevance. Why should 150 people on a forum bother me? They aren't important. Clough is.

4. I know he hasn't put a timescale on it, hence all I was saying that perhaps it is the shock that he's publicly announcing his future?

5. Seems like pure presumption? Not sure where this figure has come from?

 

Sorry if I gave off the wrong impression in my last response, my aim was simply to give my view on the issue.

1) I didn't take it as an attack

2) I don't see how it can be as far as you're concerned. You didn't write the post, you've just chosen to understand it that way. The fact that you haven't changed your mind even after I've told you what I meant is bizarre.

3) I never suggested 150 people posting on a forum should bother you personally. It bothers me massively but that's my fault not yours.

4) He hasn't publicly announced his future at all. Again we'll be back to talking about people stirring. Clough has said one thing others have decided he mean another.

5) I think you probably took place in the same vote I did. +50% of forum members want him gone. Are they not the voice of Derby fans?

 

No wrong impression at all. Don't take things so personally.

[Albert]

5) I think you probably took place in the same vote I did. +50% of forum members want him gone. Are they not the voice of Derby fans?

False, less than 50% wanted him gone according to that poll. Also considering that the forum is a very small subset, and a particular subset (that is, a non biased one) it can't be seen as a good sample of total opinion. In a run of bad results as well, you'd expect more "Clough out" sentiment and more people coming to the forum to voice this, this doesn't mean that the fraction is definitely higher.

[Ambitious]

Did Bryson play bad out on the left? I don't think he was particularly outstanding but thought he was solid.

 

I think people are just using this as an excuse to beat Clough with, if Jacobs had put in the same performance - being known he was a left midfielder there would be no issue, but some people seem to think players are like robots and only operate in one position.