Do we have a style?

[WilkoRam]

Well it wasn't 50/50 but for instance the 98/99 season was a pretty mixed bag, lee morris was the same price as seth johnson, 00/01 was a bit mixed...

 

04/05 was a good season... Burley I think?

 

And since 09/10 I think Nigel's had more hits than misses from that list? and the misses weren't huge money misses...

 

Edit: Like that link btw

The issue I have with that link is a ) I can't seem to find Stimac on there and b ) it appears that Burley spent absolutely nothing. Not one penny. Amazing! Also seems Gregory made us a lot of money operating on a much more negative budget than Nigel and to be honest I don't buy it.

[ronnieronalde]

Oh you were watching were you?Is that what they call "dogging"?whatever that is.

I never said I wanted either Phil Brown or Jewell back,just setting the record straight.

I was one of the first on the old DET forum,taking a lot of abuse,some on here who

attack him now.

What record are you setting straight?

 

If Clough leaves tomorrow, he has done nothing bad to the club. You can argue if you want whether he's done any good but he certainly hasn't done anything at all to put the club in a negative light or to set the club back three years or dragged them through the press. He hasn't pushed the club to an inch of it's financial life and he has been in the bottom three for three full games since he got here.

 

For some that's enough to start fairly concerted a clough out campaign on here. For others it's got so bad they can start calling him a muppet.

 

For me, there have been many darker days in Derby County history. I don't understand the fuss.

[ChaddesdenRam]

I think it is a bit of de ja vu.

in 06/07 we signed

a left back Jay Mceverly

a playermaker David Jones

a goalscorer Steve Howard

a centre half Dean Leacock

a winger Craig Fagan

also the emergence from the academy of an excellent player in Giles Barnes

we need in the summer of 2013

a Left back

a centre half

a winger/playmaker

a goalscorer

we already have the emergence of an excellent academy player in Hughes and potentially it could be bennett's emergence season.

can we dream of a team that played that style of football and won so many games late on 1-0 and just had that winning mentality.

can we dream of playoffs at wembley again,

[Albert]

Perhaps you could go through the 50m for us player by player.

Player by player? Ugh...

Derby:

Sterjovski ~ £300k

Villa ~ £2 mil

Savage ~ £1.5 mil

Hulse ~ £1.75 mil

Dickinson ~ £750k

Davies ~ £275k

Varney ~ £1 mil

Total: £7.575 mil

This of course doesn't include such things as loan fees for players like Ellington and Kazmierczak, and if I recall correctly, the rumour at the time was that Ellington's loan fee was "substantial". Let's move on to previous clubs though:

Bradford City:

Mills ~ £1 mil

Rankin ~ £1.3 mil

Windass ~ £950k

Todd ~ £250k

Thalley ~£600k

Redfearn ~ £250k

Myers ~ £800k

Wetherall ~ £1.4 mil

Sharpe ~ £200k

Halle ~ £200k

Total: £6.95 mil

Note, these are only the players that I've found that he signed for them, there may be more. Also note that thanks to inflation these values would be more in current terms, but let's leave it as just what the contemporary media values are for now.

Sheffield Wednesday:

Michael West ~ £150k

Harkness ~ £200k

Lescott ~ £100k

Hendon ~ £40k

Total: £490k

Hmmm...

Wigan Athletic:

Ellington ~ £1.2 mil

Gary Teale ~ £200k

Filan ~ £600k

Dinning ~ £750k

De Vos ~ £500k

Kennedy ~ £300k

Bullard ~ £275k

Horsfield ~ £1 mil

Roberts ~ £1.4 mil

Graham ~ £215k

Wright ~ £250k

Scharner ~ £2 mil

Connolly ~ £2 mil

Camara ~ £3 mil

Taylor ~ £750k

Chimbonda ~ £500k

Politt ~ £200k

Skoko ~ £850 mil

Aghahowa ~ £2.1 mil

Folan ~ £500k

Cotterill ~ £2 mil

Kilbane ~ £2 mil

Boyce ~ £1 mil

Landzaat ~ £2.5 mil

Heskey ~ £5.5 mil

Granqvist ~ £750k

Total: £32.34 mil

As such, including his time at Derby this come to £47.355 mil before taking into account his time at Ipswich, wages, inflation, agents fees etc.

[top 6 finish]

I do.

[ronnieronalde]

I do.

Albert that post deserves a kiss down under.

 

top6 I owe you an apology.

 

it wasn't in the region of 50m at all. I'm a disgrace.

 

It was much much more than that. he spunked millions of Ipswich Town money as well.

 

I'm off to hang my head in shame.

[top 6 finish]

Player by player? Ugh...

Derby:

Sterjovski ~ £300k

Villa ~ £2 mil

Savage ~ £1.5 mil

Hulse ~ £1.75 mil

Dickinson ~ £750k

Davies ~ £275k

Varney ~ £1 mil

Total: £7.575 mil

This of course doesn't include such things as loan fees for players like Ellington and Kazmierczak, and if I recall correctly, the rumour at the time was that Ellington's loan fee was "substantial". Let's move on to previous clubs though:

Bradford City:

Mills ~ £1 mil

Rankin ~ £1.3 mil

Windass ~ £950k

Todd ~ £250k

Thalley ~£600k

Redfearn ~ £250k

Myers ~ £800k

Wetherall ~ £1.4 mil

Sharpe ~ £200k

Halle ~ £200k

Total: £6.95 mil

Note, these are only the players that I've found that he signed for them, there may be more. Also note that thanks to inflation these values would be more in current terms, but let's leave it as just what the contemporary media values are for now.

Sheffield Wednesday:

Michael West ~ £150k

Harkness ~ £200k

Lescott ~ £100k

Hendon ~ £40k

Total: £490k

Hmmm...

Wigan Athletic:

Ellington ~ £1.2 mil

Gary Teale ~ £200k

Filan ~ £600k

Dinning ~ £750k

De Vos ~ £500k

Kennedy ~ £300k

Bullard ~ £275k

Horsfield ~ £1 mil

Roberts ~ £1.4 mil

Graham ~ £215k

Wright ~ £250k

Scharner ~ £2 mil

Connolly ~ £2 mil

Camara ~ £3 mil

Taylor ~ £750k

Chimbonda ~ £500k

Politt ~ £200k

Skoko ~ £850 mil

Aghahowa ~ £2.1 mil

Folan ~ £500k

Cotterill ~ £2 mil

Kilbane ~ £2 mil

Boyce ~ £1 mil

Landzaat ~ £2.5 mil

Heskey ~ £5.5 mil

Granqvist ~ £750k

Total: £32.34 mil

As such, including his time at Derby this come to £47.355 mil before taking into account his time at Ipswich, wages, inflation, agents fees etc.

I was only discussing Wigan.We don't know if your figures are correct and you haven't included sales.Also

that was in 2005.8 years in the Premier League average say 40m per season plus 48m should they get

relegated.370m in total.What a return.

[curb]

Why are we even discussing this?

His spell here was disastrous, probably the worst spell of any manager of any club ever (is that better, or did you know what I meant first time round)

Is not being caught on video and having picture stills of said session (complete with her Mary hinge covered with a Derby badge) splashed all over the national press proof enough, without having to be peering through the window yourself?

Bonkers argument, and the Phil Brown one.

[Albert]

I was only discussing Wigan.We don't know if your figures are correct and you haven't included sales.Also

that was in 2005.8 years in the Premier League average say 40m per season plus 48m should they get

relegated.370m in total.What a return.

Of so you were only discussing Wigan eh? The same Wigan he spent around £32.34 mil at. At no point did the sales come into question before, it was just what was spent on transfers that was being discussed, don't try and change your terms when you're shown to be wrong. By the time that the wages, signing on fees and agents fees are taken into account it's probably quite likely that the figure is well over £50 mil at Wigan alone.

[cheron85]

The issue I have with that link is a ) I can't seem to find Stimac on there and b ) it appears that Burley spent absolutely nothing. Not one penny. Amazing! Also seems Gregory made us a lot of money operating on a much more negative budget than Nigel and to be honest I don't buy it.

 

Yeh, Stimac isn't there! He was 94/95 season wasn't he?

 

and some of those fees are way off... £2m for Riggott and £3m for Christie? Thought it was £3m for both... and £2.5 for Huddlestone?!?!?!?!? Think we ended up with about 2.5p

 

And obviously all the recent ones have no value against the transfer...

 

I was more talking about the actual players rather than values though... we know Nigel hasn't spent very much, but I'd say that on that list he's had more hits than misses

[WilkoRam]

Oh I see. Yeah it's an interesting if somewhat inaccurate site/list. I did post in another thread all of Nigel's signings and I felt the opposite. 39 players I think he's signed. I'd say less that 19 were good purchases in my eyes, but we all judge players differently hence the endless talk about Sammon's usefulness.

[cheron85]

Oh I see. Yeah it's an interesting if somewhat inaccurate site/list. I did post in another thread all of Nigel's signings and I felt the opposite. 39 players I think he's signed. I'd say less that 19 were good purchases in my eyes, but we all judge players differently hence the endless talk about Sammon's usefulness.

 

I think that's most of the permanent signings by Nigel though, and not the loan ones... I don't tend to count the loans unless they turn into permanents as they're obviously there just to do a short term job (Kuqi being the prime example)... I don't even count the full season loans really as they don't have an impact on the direction of the club, just highlight what we're short of for that season...

 

It's partly why I've enjoyed the relative lack of loans this season... Think it's a nice position to be in where we're able to loan out more young players to get them game time than we need to bring in to cover...

[WilkoRam]

Sorry it was more like 28 not 39. This was a list of signings that didn't include this seasons as I felt it was too early to judge this years signings and I was making a point about players who Nigel signed who have since been sold.

Porter - Injured no idea how good he could have been but for me looked very poor and frustrated me that he would get games and Hulse would be on the bench.

Croft - Poor signing

Moxey - Liked him, not sure why we sold him

Buxton - Does a job

Pringle - Didn't work

Barker - Good signing, pity about the injuries

Deeney - Did a job

Abalimba - Who? Didn't work

Hendrie - Didn't work

Anderson - Did a job

Brayford - Great signing

Bailey - I thought a good signing but why isn't he still here? If he was good why is he at Coventry so despite my personal opinion I must mark as not good

Martin - Poor signing

Roberts - Good

Cywka - See Bailey

Doyle - Poor

Davies - Don't rate

Boulding - Poor

Fielding - Good, would like to see him back in the 1st team

Ward - Great, when fit, but still great

Bryson - Alright

Shackell - Good but sold?

Maguire - Poor, has to be although we never got to see him

Robinson - Good, again for some reason on loan

Tyson - didnt really get a chance and now on loan

Legzdins - good

Riggott - poor

Naylor - could be good

So I'd say maybe 14-15 signings I'd chalk up as being good. So about half and I covered it in the original post where I put this list but considering only 11 of those 28 are still at the club and not been sold, retired or on loan, I find it hard to justify more of them as being good signings if they only last a season or so before falling out of favour. I don't know the figure for the last or other clubs so I may be wrong but it strikes me as a high turnover of players in a short space of time.

The ones this season

Jacobs - I rate, hope he gets more game time but can see him being another Maguire/Cwyka type and out on loan or sold next season.

Coutts - alright so far

Keogh - not as good as Shackell but not bad

O'Connor - too early to judge

Hoganson - as above

Gjokaj - as above

Sammon - debated to death, not good enough for me but understand others rate

Freeman - too early to judge

So last summers transfers may be alright, I'll be interested to see how many of them are still around the first team next season.

[RodleyRam]

Sorry it was more like 28 not 39. This was a list of signings that didn't include this seasons as I felt it was too early to judge this years signings and I was making a point about players who Nigel signed who have since been sold.

Porter - Injured no idea how good he could have been but for me looked very poor and frustrated me that he would get games and Hulse would be on the bench.

Croft - Poor signing

Moxey - Liked him, not sure why we sold him

Buxton - Does a job

Pringle - Didn't work

Barker - Good signing, pity about the injuries

Deeney - Did a job

Abalimba - Who? Didn't work

Hendrie - Didn't work

Anderson - Did a job

Brayford - Great signing

Bailey - I thought a good signing but why isn't he still here? If he was good why is he at Coventry so despite my personal opinion I must mark as not good

Martin - Poor signing

Roberts - Good

Cywka - See Bailey

Doyle - Poor

Davies - Don't rate

Boulding - Poor

Fielding - Good, would like to see him back in the 1st team

Ward - Great, when fit, but still great

Bryson - Alright

Shackell - Good but sold?

Maguire - Poor, has to be although we never got to see him

Robinson - Good, again for some reason on loan

Tyson - didnt really get a chance and now on loan

Legzdins - good

Riggott - poor

Naylor - could be good

So I'd say maybe 14-15 signings I'd chalk up as being good. So about half and I covered it in the original post where I put this list but considering only 11 of those 28 are still at the club and not been sold, retired or on loan, I find it hard to justify more of them as being good signings if they only last a season or so before falling out of favour. I don't know the figure for the last or other clubs so I may be wrong but it strikes me as a high turnover of players in a short space of time.

The ones this season

Jacobs - I rate, hope he gets more game time but can see him being another Maguire/Cwyka type and out on loan or sold next season.

Coutts - alright so far

Keogh - not as good as Shackell but not bad

O'Connor - too early to judge

Hoganson - as above

Gjokaj - as above

Sammon - debated to death, not good enough for me but understand others rate

Freeman - too early to judge

So last summers transfers may be alright, I'll be interested to see how many of them are still around the first team next season.

I think these are fairly reasonable summaries, point being there no expensive mistakes really. Even players that haven't worked out have either been sold on at very little loss or were cheap/free to begin with.

 

I think others have pointed out that prior managers have spent a lot and not got the results to justify the outlay on transfers, wages etc.

 

Whatever, you think of Nigel and his record on the the transfer front, he's certainly not wasted money. Granted he hasn't been given much to waste but I think some of the criticisms of his transfer dealings have been harsh to say the least. There are much fewer clear cut failures in comparison with others, which I think is pretty good considering the budgets he's working with.

 

Whether these signings point to much of a style, which I suppose is how transfer activity came into the discussion, is hard to say. Clearly Nigel likes hard working players, he has an eye for an attacking player too but sometimes the management of these attacking players seems a little off at times.

 

I'd say we loosely have a style, in that we like to press, get the ball down and like to keep possession where we can. I don't think we've been able to execute this style effectively enough this season, but I can see what the coaching staff are trying to do. I feel they need to have a bit more strength in their convictions at times and I think we'd see a more consistent style emerging.

[cheron85]

I think these are fairly reasonable summaries, point being there no expensive mistakes really. Even players that haven't worked out have either been sold on at very little loss or were cheap/free to begin with.

 

I think others have pointed out that prior managers have spent a lot and not got the results to justify the outlay on transfers, wages etc.

 

Whatever, you think of Nigel and his record on the the transfer front, he's certainly not wasted money.

 

Yes... Exactly what I was trying to say... £3m on Claude Davis... or £3m on pretty much our entire transfer outlay on players each season since Nigel came in...

 

Every manager makes mistakes... Just in the transfer market I don't think Nigel's have been too costly...

[WilkoRam]

Are we not in danger of judging Nigel based on how bad Jewell was and the money wasted By Davies in the prem. Is this a fair yardstick? For arguments sake, had Nigel followed Burley would we feel the same? I think Burley had worse conditions to work with and did better and we played with a style.

Again though, Burley is just one example of someone who did it well and Jewell is one where it went wrong (Davies is more of a mixed bag, not so bad to begin with then horrible at the end).

So we can't judge him up against the poor without also judging him against the good.

[DCFCfranco]

Are we not in danger of judging Nigel based on how bad Jewell was and the money wasted By Davies in the prem. Is this a fair yardstick? For arguments sake, had Nigel followed Burley would we feel the same? I think Burley had worse conditions to work with and did better and we played with a style.

Again though, Burley is just one example of someone who did it well and Jewell is one where it went wrong (Davies is more of a mixed bag, not so bad to begin with then horrible at the end).

So we can't judge him up against the poor without also judging him against the good.

Which brings us to the conclusion is Nigel's an average manager.

[top 6 finish]

Albert I haven't lost any arguement,you just choose to ignore any point that shows you are wrong.Phil

Brown has had success with Hull.Jewell had success with Wigan.Clough hasn't had success.

[Duracell]

Albert I haven't lost any arguement,you just choose to ignore any point that shows you are wrong.Phil

Brown has had success with Hull.Jewell had success with Wigan.Clough hasn't had success.

What about Burton Albion? Or is that not allowed because it doesn't fit your view that Clough has never done anything right at all ever?

[WilkoRam]

Which brings us to the conclusion is Nigel's an average manager.

And there's where I rate him. As an average manager. I don't think he's a poor manager otherwise we would have been relegated for sure, we wouldn't have any purple patches of form etc. so no, he's not poor but he's not good either in my opinion. He is achieving the minimum year on year. That's stay up and show some signs of good football. He may do better with money but an average manager will succeed with money, a good manager will just succeed. And seeing as we don't have the war chest of other clubs I believe we need a good manager in charge.