Do we have a style?

[WilkoRam]

Clough didn't sign Dickinson.

But yes, your point is valid, we had to take a chance on cheap unproven players, some work, some don't.

Like no manager has had to do that before. Even previous Derby managers have had to find unknown gems but have managed it and in my opinion managed it far better than Nigel.

[ChatsworthRam]

Or because we can't afford to buy and/or pay wages for proven quality. It would be truly amazing if every signing had worked out brilliantly.

When Money's tight you can't afford to waste it in players that don't fit in your system, or are not going to improve the first team squad.

We spent a bit of money on Tom Naylor and caused a fuss in getting him here he has hardly kicked a ball, then we have Gkokaj another young centre back why sign these players then not use them when we have had such troubles at Centre back this season.

We have had countless wide players that Clough has signed and decided dont work for him or his system

Davies

MaGuire

Tyson

Croft

Kilbane

Dave Martin

Cywka

And you can probably add Jacobs to that list.

Maybe if there was a tactical style or a plan half those players wouldn't have been signed, we didn't pay a lot of money for that list but they all draw a decent wage, signing fees agents fees etc.

[uttoxram75]

Like no manager has had to do that before. Even previous Derby managers have had to find unknown gems but have managed it and in my opinion managed it far better than Nigel.

Agreed other managers have had to do the same, I never said owt different! The point still stands, when your snaffling up freebies, youngsters and cheap players it will always be hit and miss.

[WilkoRam]

But I think he's missed more than he's hit. That was what I am trying to say. His success ratio in finding these gems isn't great and I would say a lot worse than that of previous managers in the same boat.

[Albert]

But I think he's missed more than he's hit. That was what I am trying to say. His success ratio in finding these gems isn't great and I would say a lot worse than that of previous managers in the same boat.

It seems to be quite the opposite, especially when compared to Davies and Jewell who basically ended up with nothing but misses by the end.

Out of Nigel's time here there have really only been a handful of real flops, Hendrie, Croft, Dave Martin and Maguire, beyond it's been down to injuries or players eventually falling out of favour a season or so later. Porter looked great before his injury, whilst Cywka looked a real gem at first before his form vanished and ultimately following his injury at the end of 10-11 he fell out of favour for the 11-12 season.

[WilkoRam]

Well how are we judging the players then? You say Davies had duds at the end but judge some of Nigel's such as Cwyka how they were to start.

If we say Cwyka was a good signing then how come he was then sold on so quickly? Surely if we are to judge success it should be on if they stay in the managers plans or at least on more than half or one season.

[TroyDyer]

Cywka worked perfectly when we were playing the Metgod dutch system. Him Bueno and Commons behind Kuqi worked excellently and we were rolling teams over. 

Then came the tinkering. Cywka and Bueno to the bench, didn't pick up Kuqi when we should have, and sent Metgod off to work with injured players. Season fell apart.

How much of that was down the Cloughs control freakism?

 

This season we were looking good, winning games, massacred Tranmere, then he tinkers. Brayford in midfield, lose to Brighton, and the rot starts.

 

Everyone goes on about not having funds. But the players we have have proved they can compete. I think it's the lack of a plan B for nearly 5 years that has cost us.  

[Albert]

Cywka worked perfectly when we were playing the Metgod dutch system. Him Bueno and Commons behind Kuqi worked excellently and we were rolling teams over. 

Then came the tinkering. Cywka and Bueno to the bench, didn't pick up Kuqi when we should have, and sent Metgod off to work with injured players. Season fell apart.

How much of that was down the Cloughs control freakism?

 

This season we were looking good, winning games, massacred Tranmere, then he tinkers. Brayford in midfield, lose to Brighton, and the rot starts.

 

Everyone goes on about not having funds. But the players we have have proved they can compete. I think it's the lack of a plan B for nearly 5 years that has cost us.

Why yes, the Metgod conspiracy. When the team does well, it wasn't Clough, when they do poorly, it must have been his fault eh?

Consistency, always fun!

Also, it's been four and a bit years, it'll be 5 years early in 2014.

[ramLAD]

We play no style. Clough plays his best players over playing a style. (Bryson/Coutts outwide)

[TroyDyer]

Why yes, the Metgod conspiracy. When the team does well, it wasn't Clough, when they do poorly, it must have been his fault eh?

Consistency, always fun!

Also, it's been four and a bit years, it'll be 5 years early in 2014.

 

So the fact that we played a similar style to the Dutch World cup side, in which Metgod was involved, is a conspiracy? Ok. 

[Albert]

Well how are we judging the players then? You say Davies had duds at the end but judge some of Nigel's such as Cwyka how they were to start.

If we say Cwyka was a good signing then how come he was then sold on so quickly? Surely if we are to judge success it should be on if they stay in the managers plans or at least on more than half or one season.

Are you telling me that Pearson, Jay Mac, Davis, Earnshaw, Malcolm, Macken, Teale, Fagan, Todd, Feilhaber, Lewis and Griffin all had a period of sustained success under him? It's a bit unfair to a couple, as we did end up winning promotion, but we managed to throw away an automatic position with midtable form from February onwards.

I wouldn't call Cywka a brilliant signing by any means, but he looked good during his loan spell and his first 6 months with us, but when the team lost form he was part of the problem. The fact that he came in for free, likely on low wages and managed to look fairly decent at first surely means that he wasn't a bad signing, he certainly showed something, and didn't cost the club much. He was certainly worth the gamble. Compare that to signings like Feilhaber or Earnshaw. Davies had more dodgy signings in a year and a half than Clough has had in 4 and a half years, and don't even mention Jewell, he knocked off half a decade of terrible signings in one window.

[Albert]

So the fact that we played a similar style to the Dutch World cup side, in which Metgod was involved, is a conspiracy? Ok.

No, saying that Metgod was demoted to working with injured players, and that this and this alone was what led to the decline of form is people spreading nonsense. He is still part of the backroom team and the side has played good football since.

[bcnram]

We play no style. Clough plays his best players over playing a style. (Bryson/Coutts outwide)

That is a bit of a daft statement old son. He played them wide to accommodate them into the system. Both have previously had a lot of experience at playing in the wider positions. 

[WilkoRam]

Are you telling me that Pearson, Jay Mac, Davis, Earnshaw, Malcolm, Macken, Teale, Fagan, Todd, Feilhaber, Lewis and Griffin all had a period of sustained success under him? It's a bit unfair to a couple, as we did end up winning promotion, but we managed to throw away an automatic position with midtable form from February onwards.

I wouldn't call Cywka a brilliant signing by any means, but he looked good during his loan spell and his first 6 months with us, but when the team lost form he was part of the problem. The fact that he came in for free, likely on low wages and managed to look fairly decent at first surely means that he wasn't a bad signing, he certainly showed something, and didn't cost the club much. He was certainly worth the gamble. Compare that to signings like Feilhaber or Earnshaw. Davies had more dodgy signings in a year and a half than Clough has had in 4 and a half years, and don't even mention Jewell, he knocked off half a decade of terrible signings in one window.

When I get chance I'll go through all the previous managers signings but at the moment it seems a bit cherry picking. I could go on about the success of the signings of Smith and Burley on the cheap.

I'll have a more detailed look and reserve full judgement until then.

[Albert]

When I get chance I'll go through all the previous managers signings but at the moment it seems a bit cherry picking. I could go on about the success of the signings of Smith and Burley on the cheap.

I'll have a more detailed look and reserve full judgement until then.

What on Earth do Smith and Burley have to do with Davies signings?

[WilkoRam]

This all started with me saying that previous managers have done it better you introduced two previous managers. I'm simply naming two more. Why have you limited it to Jewell and Davies, I never said the last two managers did it better. Since when has this ever been limited to comparing Nigel to just Jewell and Davies? Why does my post have to be linked to Davies, that's someone you introduced not me.

[cheron85]

This all started with me saying that previous managers have done it better you introduced two previous managers. I'm simply naming two more. Why have you limited it to Jewell and Davies, I never said the last two managers did it better. Since when has this ever been limited to comparing Nigel to just Jewell and Davies? Why does my post have to be linked to Davies, that's someone you introduced not me.

 

The team I grew up watching was Jim Smith's and for every Igor Stimac there was a Bjorn Otto Bragstad...

[WilkoRam]

Seriously for every Igor? So a 50/50 ratio? Honestly? Or am I taking the phrase too literally?

Whilst trying to find players signed I found this site and after a few glances decided it was really really poor. Seems a very ill informed website. See what you think.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/football-transfers/derby-county-transfers.html

[Albert]

This all started with me saying that previous managers have done it better you introduced two previous managers. I'm simply naming two more. Why have you limited it to Jewell and Davies, I never said the last two managers did it better. Since when has this ever been limited to comparing Nigel to just Jewell and Davies? Why does my post have to be linked to Davies, that's someone you introduced not me.

You directly mentioned Davies, I was only referencing signings by Davies in that post.

[WilkoRam]

You directly mentioned Davies, I was only referencing signings by Davies in that post.

Oh yeah good point