TigerTedd Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 This season has been an interesting education into what does and doesn't make a good striker. Theo gets goals, but I think we can all agree that he's a little bit crap. Sammon is a good player, as corroborated by a number of outside sources and my limited experience if watching him play, but he doesn't get goals. But does he enable the team to get more goals? So who is the better striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randombc Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 In my OPINION Hughes is a very good a very promising player... and outside, un-biased sources seem to agree with me... This is a SINGLE source which doesn't include him... Also in my OPINION Sammon is a good player and deserving of his place in our starting line-up... and it seems outside, un-biased sources also agree with this opinion... I don't see anywhere that I've claimed a single piece of evidence is absolute (like some people on here consider their opinions to be) however I find it interesting that almost every outside source seems to support the idea of Sammon being an asset... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> The point being that the same article has said that Sammon is the 59th best player in the championship, yet Hughes can't even break into the top 100 is laughable. For that reason, I can't respect this article in any way shape or form, a player that is the second ever youngest player to represent England in under 21 games, and a player who has a ratio of 1 goal in every 5.5 games. I know which one stands out more in my OPINION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeponacid Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I'd have Sammon over CMS any day of the week, weekends, leap-days, bank holidays, mother's day, easter, christmas and whatever other days happen to exist or even not exist... Would you like to share my medication??? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 The point being that the same article has said that Sammon is the 59th best player in the championship 39th... And it's not on "best player" cos that's always going to be massively subjective... this is on "positive contribution to the team" which in this case has been measured in definable stats... If you'd read ANY of my previous posts you would see that I'm NOT claiming that this is definitive... However it may be useful for you at some point to start expanding your horizons slightly instead of the unenlightened attitude of "well I don't agree with that therefore it's rubbish" Would you like to share my medication??? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> No, fine on a mixture of red bull, lemsip, ibruprofen and booze thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randombc Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 39th... And it's not on "best player" cos that's always going to be massively subjective... this is on "positive contribution to the team" which in this case has been measured in definable stats... If you'd read ANY of my previous posts you would see that I'm NOT claiming that this is definitive... However it may be useful for you at some point to start expanding your horizons slightly instead of the unenlightened attitude of "well I don't agree with that therefore it's rubbish" No, fine on a mixture of red bull, lemsip, ibruprofen and booze thanks... [url=http://actim.pressassociation.com/]http://actim.pressassociation.com/ well this says 59th 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> Funny how you bang on about it being your opinion, yet when I try and state mine you say I should 'enlighten my attitude'. Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 [url=http://actim.pressassociation.com/]http://actim.pressassociation.com/ well this says 59th 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> Funny how you bang on about it being your opinion, yet when I try and state mine you say I should 'enlighten my attitude'. Bless. Hmmm... they've updated it since my first post (note the date I mentioned earlier on...) It's statements like "I can't respect this article in any way shape or form" which is unenlightened... That isn't an article, it's a set of stats... And the point being they are just a small part of a collection of evidence which points to Sammon being a fairly decent player... Something which you and the boo boys don;t seem to have... I've said over and over and over and over again on this thread and everywhere on this board that I respect everyone's (including you) rights to an opinion... what I find unenlightened is the way in which you dismiss anything that doesn;t support what you're saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Sammon out!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 ??? Craig Mackail-Smith Age: 29 Media value: £3.25 mil Appearances for Brighton: 72 Goals: 20 Assists: 11 Combined: 31 Goals per 90: 0.324 Assists per 90: 0.178 Combined per 90: 0.502 Conor Sammon: Age: 26 Media value: £1.2 mil Appearances for Derby: 33 Goals: 6 Assists: 3 Combined: 9 Goals per 90: 0.202 Assists per 90: 0.101 Combined per 90: 0.303 ...considering how improved the overall attack of the side is as well, is Mackail-Smith's price, age and such justified for his massively increased price? That said, I'm vaguely curious, I may have to look at the methodology of this ranking system. The list on it's own is less than convincing. Oooh, Top Trumps, Can I play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Sammon out!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!! Question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Oooh, Top Trumps, Can I play? Imagine the arguments that would happen if a Derby County top trumps were to be produced. "How can they give him a 6 for that? They haven't taken into account all the other stuff he does." "It shows him as worse passer in the squad therefore he's rubbish - FACT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramshankered Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I remember someone comparing Sammon to Heskey earlier in the week. Pretty much sums up the situation right now. If Sammon is fed a stream of chances he'd bag a few, but he's not a natural scoring, his game is more to do with unsettling defences. He's a presence, he does a lot of work and he helps bring others into play that way. It's telling how much Ward and Theo's strike rates have increased along side Sammon. Speaking of Heskey, it's odd seeing him in Australia. He's been doing what Heskey does though. May be nit picking but by strike rates presumably you mean goals converted, yes? I'd agree on Ward but have Theo's really increased alongside Sammon? How many did he score when on the pitch alongside him? I don't have the stats in front of me but I'd imagine he's performed worse when playing with Sammon (not necessary blaming the latter for that mind - Theo should take responsibility for his own poor performances). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 That said, I'm vaguely curious...... You've done it again..... Vaguely bi-curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 An awful lot of Mackail Smiths appearences has come from the bench, he's only started 1 of the last 4 matches. And although the figures you've quoted do make Sammon's contribution look 'value for money' compared to CMS, what CMS does have that Sammon doesn't is the ability to change a game, and thats what you pay the extra money for. Look back at when Brighton beat us 1-0 at pride park last year, look at all the stats you want, you'll see we had the same pocession, we had more shots, however they had that bit of quality where it really mattered. Sammon and CMS are practically the same players, neither have an ounce of quality in them. They both run around a lot, challenge a lot and generally disrupt defence through their work rate. Both are very poor technically and both us and Brighton had our pants pulled down paying what we did for them. Brighton paying what they did for CMS actually makes me feel better about us signing Sammon. Luckily for them, they have realised CMS is **** and bought someone else in, hopefully we follow suit asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Sammon and CMS are practically the same players, neither have an ounce of quality in them. They both run around a lot, challenge a lot and generally disrupt defence through their work rate. Both are very poor technically and both us and Brighton had our pants pulled down paying what we did for them. Brighton paying what they did for CMS actually makes me feel better about us signing Sammon. Luckily for them, they have realised CMS is **** and bought someone else in, hopefully we follow suit asap. Very rarely does one come across a person so filled with happiness and light as EastKentRam... http://www.beyondusports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/depression2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Question? Just wondering if this was the theme of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Just wondering if this was the theme of this thread. No... I was just highlighting another thing out there which shows that Sammon may be more valuable than the boo boys think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 No... I was just highlighting another thing out there which shows that Sammon may be more valuable than the boo boys think... Careful...there are people listening... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 No... I was just highlighting another thing out there which shows that Sammon may be more valuable than the boo boys think... I know 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Give it a couple days though and this thread will be sammon out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I agree... And looking at the explanation of how they get to these rankings they're pretty detailed calculations... certainly more accurate than the goals per games ratio which people keep mentioning when talking about Theo... The issue being that your opinion is that Sammon needs to do these things... My opinion is he's actually pretty okay at most of those things... apart from maybe sharpness in front of goal, I'll give you that one... Not in any way claiming that this is absolute solid evidence... Just commenting that it's funny that AGAIN independent outside sources fail to back up any of the Sammon haters... Clubs use those details to over-look potential signings, but they do not use them to decide who is the better player or not. A player can have excellent stats, but you need to over-look their all-round play to judge them or not. I personally quote the goals per game ratio as Theo, if we're going to describe players in rather basic terms, is simply a poacher. He scores goals. He shouldn't be judged on much else, other than his positioning to create chances, his first touch for chances (which indeed poor/hap-hazard) and how often he converts real chances. Sammon, if we're going to judge him, has to be judged on the role that he's used for. Sammon, according to Nigel, was bought in to use his pace and strength to worry opponents. Now, he can use that to an acceptable standard, but not enough to make him a real danger, nor one where he will create goals for himself by using it. The one real instance of him being such a nuisance was against Forest where he nicked the ball and played the ball to Ward for the goal. How many other times has he forced a mistake to create such a chance? How many times has a possible chance broken down because of a poor touch? I'd also suggest that the tactics don't help him in the slightest as he can't head the ball anywhere near well enough and so booting it to an isolated Connor helps no-one. People moan that Theo does nothing, that the goals he scores are put on a plate for him, yet several of Sammons goals were the cause of other players putting the ball to his feet in the box and him finishing relatively easy chances. People also remarked on assists, how many of those assists have been telling contributions on the goal, and how many of them have simply been Sammon has passed it off to someone who then took it upon themselves to score an individual goal? I'd like to see the exact points system for the way that index is scored, David Marshall is in the top 20, yet is he the best keeper in this league? Or does he happen to play for a side with strong defence and overall side? David Marshall is a decent keeper, but he is not the best in this league by a long stretch, there are many players who you would put before him in a list. It should also be noted that if this is the press associations rankings, how trustworthy are they? Again, I would have to see the way in which they're calculated, but I have sat in the Press Box at Derby and seen a tabloid journo attempt to give Bryson a 5 rating in a match where he was one of the best players on the pitch, deserving of a seven atleast. I would not judge every journalist by the same token, but being in the press does not necessarily mean you have a strong understanding of who is decent and why. Is there any explanation of Connor's rating anywhere Cheron? I'd like to see how they've calculated that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 How many other times has he forced a mistake to create such a chance? Watford on his debut maybe? Strength, tenacity and a great finish. I'm not sure people are estimating just how difficult a game Connor gives the opposition defenders when he works as hard as he usually does. He never lets them settle he pushes them every inch of the way and by the time they come off the pitch, I'm fairly sure Sammon would get a high rating if you asked the players their most difficult centre forward they've faced. When Theo has come on, he's usually done it when those defenders have been absolutely ran ragged by Wardy and Sammon's harassment. He's got to have done better with those cameo appearances and if he's not playing well then he's got to show that he's in the right frame of mind when he is needed. In my opinion for whatever reason Theo has changed his approach from when he first arrived. That may be down to being left out of the side but he's got to be a bit stronger than that. Don't sulk, work harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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