YoungUttoxRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Sammon out!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!! stop fishing for an argument, nobody will take that bait surely.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 stop fishing for an argument, nobody will take that bait surely.. Let minnow if you can think of a better pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 May be nit picking but by strike rates presumably you mean goals converted, yes? I'd agree on Ward but have Theo's really increased alongside Sammon? How many did he score when on the pitch alongside him? I don't have the stats in front of me but I'd imagine he's performed worse when playing with Sammon (not necessary blaming the latter for that mind - Theo should take responsibility for his own poor performances). In another thread I had gone through the stats for Ward and Theo this season and overall, and both of them had vastly increased goals per 90 minutes on the pitch this season in comparison to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungUttoxRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Let minnow if you can think of a better pun. ive haddock-uick think and no, I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Is there any explanation of Connor's rating anywhere Cheron? I'd like to see how they've calculated that. Dunno... The caveat I think I mentioned earlier on is that the Uni which does the research (Salford) doesn't release the exact formulas they use... And I did say many many times that I don't take this as in any way absolute conclusive proof... Just another little tick in the "Sammon might be a bit better than some people think" box... What it does say though is that it isn't based on opinion, just stats: "Contributions which are examined include goals, shots, passes, dribbles, tackles, crosses, saves, clearances, blocks, interceptions, time on the pitch and number of points gained by their team" (Just highlighting that to show they aren't the ONLY things looked at) Obviously it won't track things like positioning and movement etc and it seems to be more of a tally of positive contributions to the team over the course of the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Is there a "least bounces off the upper shin" category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Dunno... The caveat I think I mentioned earlier on is that the Uni which does the research (Salford) doesn't release the exact formulas they use... And I did say many many times that I don't take this as in any way absolute conclusive proof... Just another little tick in the "Sammon might be a bit better than some people think" box... What it does say though is that it isn't based on opinion, just stats: "Contributions which are examined include goals, shots, passes, dribbles, tackles, crosses, saves, clearances, blocks, interceptions, time on the pitch and number of points gained by their team" (Just highlighting that to show they aren't the ONLY things looked at) Obviously it won't track things like positioning and movement etc and it seems to be more of a tally of positive contributions to the team over the course of the season... I would have to see how they calculate such odds and ratings, passes could be something minute, time on the pitch is pretty vast for him as hes played most games till the end since joining, shots could include awful shots, assists for example may include a pass to Ward that you'd expect anyone to make etc. I'd have to see how they calculate them chap before I could comment on that system really, as I am curious as to how high David Marshall is considering his level of goalkeeping. He might have played all season and conceded very few so according to the stats has done well, yet he's behind a Cardiff defence that dominates most forward lines and I suspect hasn't performed nearly as well as many other goalkeepers have had to considering the defences that they have infront of them. Again, stats have to be incredibly detailed, down to the minutest detail to tell the full story. A player can be active in a game, and Sammon usually is, without necessarily playing well. I don't dislike Sammon, I just think he's incredibly average (as are our team in general) and that we've over-paid by a decent amount, even if we decrease the price mentioned and say that the fee of £1.2m is £800k with add-ons or whatever. Had we picked him up for £450k as we tried to from Scotland originally then I wouldn't mind, but the value paid and the current return from the player doesn't seem that great, for me personally. I don't think the tactics help him either, I personally think he shouldn't be trying to win the ball in a 'Kuqi' role as a target man as he mostly can't do it, he should have the ball played to feet at all oppurtunities and told to use his pace and what strength he has to either out-run centre backs or run the ball long enough to centre the ball or play someone else in (aswell as generally hanging around the box when he hasn't got the ball, which he already does). He's certainly no target man, or atleast, he's a poor one. The goal against Watford was a good example of what he could do, he should be using his strength, having the ball passed to his feet, playing a one two then looking to run onto the return pace and out-run defenders. As it is he's having to head the ball alot, which he can't do, hold it up when isolated, which he also can't do, and he generally breaks down, at the very least, a third of the moves that involve him due to a poor touch or being muscled out of it. His touch is as poor as Theo's at times, though other times it's spot on, he needs to work on that. I hope he is doing so. TL:DR here, apologies Cheron! Half of that is me just thinking out-loud. I just judge him on what I see, I have no vendetta against him. My opinion is simply based on what I see before me when he plays. He's an average player. I don't think he's a bad one, but I wouldn't like to think that we brought him in to be a main striker without having a clear use for him. If how to use him is the way we're seeing now, then it's probably a waste of money, and we have little enough as it is. Let us hope he improves, games like the one against Huddersfield are too few and far in between for my liking (and that game might be explained by how bad Huddersfield have been away from home). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Do are we saying marlon king, and fat boy Reid are better than any of our players? I don't get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Marlon King's a swine, but in pure footballing ability he's a very effective poacher. I would say he's a better striker than any of the ones we currently have. Andy Reid has been a focal point in Forests side this year, so I would expect him to be pretty high up the list too, considering his goals and overall influence this year. I suspect home is where the heart is for him at the moment, I couldn't see him moving and doing it anywhere else, seems to simply be enjoying his football again finally. His wages are pretty decent and he does have fitness issues (and he goes invisible at times too, for some clubs the whole time he was there), but when on form he's pretty darn useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I don't think Cheron has ever said this proves that Sammon is a class act, just that maybe he's not as bad as people think and that some of his contribution is missed by some. I don't think he's justifying his price or continued unrivalled place in the team, hopefully he improves. But he does work hard for the team and not everything he does is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I don't think Cheron has ever said this proves that Sammon is a class act, just that maybe he's not as bad as people think and that some of his contribution is missed by some. I don't think he's justifying his price or continued unrivalled place in the team, hopefully he improves. But he does work hard for the team and not everything he does is poor. I wasn't saying that Cheron was saying that Sammon's a world beater chap, I was merely giving my opinion on Sammon and challenging how those figures were calculated, given some of the placements of players in that list. He's not a terrible striker, just one who I think isn't as dominant, effective or influencial as i'd like our main striker to be. If we'd picked him up on the cheap and thrown him in to try him I wouldn't mind, but to have brought him in as a main striker for a larger/larger fee disappoints me. Anyway, I hope he does go on to improve, he's here for a while it would seem, i'm hoping he has a better season next year than this. If he gets a few bits of his ability to become more consistent/effective then he could indeed lead the line for us fairly well over a season, as it is he's rather sporadic with how he performs, and that's over 90 minutes. If he does improve, i'll be a very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 He's not a terrible striker, just one who I think isn't as dominant, effective or influencial as i'd like our main striker to be. If we'd picked him up on the cheap and thrown him in to try him I wouldn't mind, but to have brought him in as a main striker for a larger/larger fee disappoints me. I do think we may all have been a little bit blinded by the "large" fee we payed for Sammon... we paid £1.2 million... that's PEANUTS for a decent striker... That's 1/8th the price of Jordan Rhodes... Even with exponantial price increases for forwards it's not that much... Also, interesting thing I hadn't realised... Sammon has only ever scored for us at PP... so he's hit like 7 in 14 at home... And you may call me Batman from now on if you wish... You have earned my respect... http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25084526 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 He hasnt scored away yet? Never even realised that. Wow, that's bad. Says a lot about how we set up away from as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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