bcnram Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Will Hughes is Repton student But Derby Co did not put him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 The derby county scholars are educated at Loughborough university I think. I guess they work towards a btec or nvq something like that. I don't know if repton school has anything to do with dcfc anymore. Yes will Hughes did go to repton school. But not because of derby county, he was already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey B Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 You've not given us any evidence to suggest that it isn't made up. Yeah, and if I did tell you, you still wouldn't believe me anyway...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Yeah, and if I did tell you, you still wouldn't believe me anyway...... You don't seem to understand still... give us evidence... You saying stuff behind an annonymous name on the internet isn't evidence... Maybe you have the best source in the world but if you never prove it then no-one's gonna beleive you... For instance, I'm Batman... so I have put up a picture of me baking a cake.. now people know I'm Batman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Reading through the Academy article,it seems quite clear that becoming Category 1 doesn't protect us from poaching,but merely ups the level of compensation we might receive for 12-16 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Reading through the Academy article,it seems quite clear that becoming Category 1 doesn't protect us from poaching,but merely ups the level of compensation we might receive for 12-16 year olds. Exactly, the difference is the compensation, and its still just a nominal fee for Cat 1 teams. Actually playing the kids, giving them a chance at actually progressing here, is far more important than simply getting category 1 status for being able to keep them longer. Now, if I recall correctly, once a player agrees professional terms, even if still under 17, they are then no longer able to leave for this compensation are they? I read through the rules a while back and this is the impression I got. This is why Mason Bennett, Kwame Thomas, Josh Lelan etc. can't be poached this way from what I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 It also seems that becoming a category 1 academy would allow us to buy the best youngsters for a set fee. We can give 48 hours notice, go to any training ground and if we like a youngster snap them up for a set fee decided on by the category that club is in and other factors such as age and appearance. To me investing in a good academy and making us cat 1, allowing us to sign better youngsters and receive more compensation for our own makes sense. Football is changing and the sooner we invest in youth the better. Investing more and becoming a cat 1 academy is a good move in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Exactly, the difference is the compensation, and its still just a nominal fee for Cat 1 teams. Actually playing the kids, giving them a chance at actually progressing here, is far more important than simply getting category 1 status for being able to keep them longer. Now, if I recall correctly, once a player agrees professional terms, even if still under 17, they are then no longer able to leave for this compensation are they? I read through the rules a while back and this is the impression I got. This is why Mason Bennett, Kwame Thomas, Josh Lelan etc. can't be poached this way from what I can tell. Quite right,Albert.The only real benefit I can see from Cat 1 is the £15k per year extra compensation per year of development for anyone poached in the 12-16 year bracket.I can't particularly see that an upgrade would be cost effective (unless we're nearly at £2.3m,which I doubt).The 90 minute travel rule doesn't apply to Cat 1 as well as 2. Our trump card will always be that we give youngsters a chance-if they've exceptional talent,they'll make the big money later anyway.The only possible danger I could see would be greedy parents not acting in the best long term interest/s of their kid/s. As far as the U17s on contracts go,we'd be pretty safe as it would be just like any other situation involving contracted players. The interesting thing from the article is that it seems to imply that there'd be nothing to stop a Cat 3 club from poaching a kid from a Cat 1 club,if the player were from an area within 90 minutes travel of the 'lesser' club (however unlikely). Unless I've misinterpreted something,I can't see a great deal of benefit in an upgrade from 2 to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Quite right,Albert.The only real benefit I can see from Cat 1 is the £15k per year extra compensation per year of development for anyone poached in the 12-16 year bracket.I can't particularly see that an upgrade would be cost effective (unless we're nearly at £2.3m,which I doubt).The 90 minute travel rule doesn't apply to Cat 1 as well as 2. Our trump card will always be that we give youngsters a chance-if they've exceptional talent,they'll make the big money later anyway.The only possible danger I could see would be greedy parents not acting in the best long term interest/s of their kid/s. As far as the U17s on contracts go,we'd be pretty safe as it would be just like any other situation involving contracted players. The interesting thing from the article is that it seems to imply that there'd be nothing to stop a Cat 3 club from poaching a kid from a Cat 1 club,if the player were from an area within 90 minutes travel of the 'lesser' club (however unlikely). Unless I've misinterpreted something,I can't see a great deal of benefit in an upgrade from 2 to 1. I'm probably reading it wrong but it seems to state that Cat 1 Academies will be able to poach kids from lower academies. Therefore being in Cat 1 rather than Cat 2 would open up the ability to get youngsters from other academies. In effect there probably won't be many Cat 1's about and therefore if you are Cat 1 you are in the driving seat in terms of picking up promising youngsters. "And it will be the clubs boasting category one facilities that will have the pick of the crop from the talent at all the other academies or centre of excellence. Free from the old 1 hour travelling rule of the old system, Category one academies will not be able to poach the stars of the future in order to bolster their home-grown quota at a fraction of the cost." I'm assuming they mean "now" instead of "not" in the last sentence. Not only that but investing the money in more staff for coaching the kids is a positive whatever the potential cost or profit. This must be seen as the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 You don't seem to understand still... give us evidence... You saying stuff behind an annonymous name on the internet isn't evidence... Maybe you have the best source in the world but if you never prove it then no-one's gonna beleive you... For instance, I'm Batman... so I have put up a picture of me baking a cake.. now people know I'm Batman... You have some competition with that assertion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 [url= You have some competition with that assertion! He's not even dressed like me... And his cakes aren't as good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I'm probably reading it wrong but it seems to state that Cat 1 Academies will be able to poach kids from lower academies. Therefore being in Cat 1 rather than Cat 2 would open up the ability to get youngsters from other academies. In effect there probably won't be many Cat 1's about and therefore if you are Cat 1 you are in the driving seat in terms of picking up promising youngsters. "And it will be the clubs boasting category one facilities that will have the pick of the crop from the talent at all the other academies or centre of excellence. Free from the old 1 hour travelling rule of the old system, Category one academies will not be able to poach the stars of the future in order to bolster their home-grown quota at a fraction of the cost." I'm assuming they mean "now" instead of "not" in the last sentence. Not only that but investing the money in more staff for coaching the kids is a positive whatever the potential cost or profit. This must be seen as the future I'm sure 'now' would be correct. I think the statement is just an opinion based on the better facilities that Cat 1 offer-Cat 2 is also free of the old travel rule.The fact that a higher level of compensation is cited for Cat 1 indicates that kids from Cat 1 academies can be poached (otherwise there'd be no need to quote compensation levels).Journalists can jump to conclusions-we've seen it with the DET recently,who claimed that the full accounts were now available (implying that they hadn't been last month).That was nonsense-if they hadn't been available last month I wouldn't have been able to download the "Full set of accounts" and comment on them. If we're already having great success with our Academy under Cat 2,I don't see a great deal of point in changing it.As it appears to be full of promising youngsters,the acid test would surely be 'have we had any poached?'.As far as I can see,the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Very true regarding the compensation levels for Cat 1, players must be able to be poached from them also but could a Cat 2 academy take a Cat 1 player? Or can you only sign those from those that are the same or lower? If that's the case then again I can see the benefit of becoming Cat 1 as you're removing a lot of clubs from feeding from you. To be honest I don't know enough about it. I may try and read up if I get time today. The other thing about acadamies (and as I've made it clear I'm a big fan of investing in youth) is making sure you're not just a breeding ground for promising players to go elsewhere. This is always be a factor for teams not in the top flight and although sometimes it works for the club and that money propels them forward like Southampton, there are other clubs who have a great reputation for producing good you g players but the club doesn't move forward, like Crewe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Yeah, and if I did tell you, you still wouldn't believe me anyway...... Whys that then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Whys that then? Lack of evidence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Very true regarding the compensation levels for Cat 1, players must be able to be poached from them also but could a Cat 2 academy take a Cat 1 player? Or can you only sign those from those that are the same or lower? If that's the case then again I can see the benefit of becoming Cat 1 as you're removing a lot of clubs from feeding from you. To be honest I don't know enough about it. I may try and read up if I get time today. The other thing about acadamies (and as I've made it clear I'm a big fan of investing in youth) is making sure you're not just a breeding ground for promising players to go elsewhere. This is always be a factor for teams not in the top flight and although sometimes it works for the club and that money propels them forward like Southampton, there are other clubs who have a great reputation for producing good you g players but the club doesn't move forward, like Crewe. Nothing I've read so far indicates that a cat 2 couldn't poach a cat 1 kid.I think the concerns were mainly those of the lower league clubs on 2 counts:- The removal of the distance ruling,meaning others could poach on their manor,and fairly moderate compensation replacing juicy fees. I find it extremely unfair and possibly counter productive if it forces smaller clubs, that previously relied on fees,out of business.The have a hell of a lots trying to gain more advantage over the poor,on the back of a threat to withdraw funding.Their come uppance will arrive one day,and I for one will have zero sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Couldn't agree more about the knock on affects that this will have on the lower league clubs. That's due to the compensation that will now be fixed and appears to make it cheaper to get those youngsters from the lower clubs. I've never been a fan of the limited radius that was in place. Seems unfair as well. Clubs situated in highly populated areas such as London or Manchester would have a larger pool of players than those clubs in more remote areas. Freedom to scout and find youngsters from wherever in country seems a lot fairer. The compensation change will have a big knock on affect though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The only problem is that "The current 90 minute travel rule will not apply" is rather conspicuous by its absence in respect of Cat 3 -so 1 and 2 can go fishing where they like,but 3 can't.That doesn't seem fair to me. Thinking about Cat 1,if they can poach amongst themselves,I again see no advantage in upgrading,as we'd still be vulnerable.If we're currently bringing home plenty of bacon,I don't see the point of spending more for minimal gain.I think our safeguard is the fact we seem to be regarded as the place to be for opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 It's probably, a possibly misguided, attempt to get those Cat 3 academy clubs to invest into youth so that they can then shop around more. If there has to be some incentive for clubs to invest more into youth setup. If Cat 3 could get kids from anywhere why would any club invest and become Cat 2? I would have thought a bigger difference between Cat 1 and 2 were in order whereby if you were Cat 1 then your players can't be poached. I understand the idea behind it the scheme. Whether it works or not I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 It's probably, a possibly misguided, attempt to get those Cat 3 academy clubs to invest into youth so that they can then shop around more. If there has to be some incentive for clubs to invest more into youth setup. If Cat 3 could get kids from anywhere why would any club invest and become Cat 2? I would have thought a bigger difference between Cat 1 and 2 were in order whereby if you were Cat 1 then your players can't be poached. I understand the idea behind it the scheme. Whether it works or not I don't know. Really enjoying reading this. Good to-ing and fro-ing and nice to see Wilko back posting. I think this is where we've stolen the march on other academies, whether it's by luck or whether it's with careful planning as part of the long term vision they've talked about for possibly too long now. When you look at the Premier League, for all it's wealth and it's facilities and it's exposure there's something it doesn't have. It doesn't have a reputation for bringing through young kids. Especially young kids who are a bit different and a cut above the rest. Too many times you see kids move to top clubs having shown massive potential to then have to wait, the club put their development on hold or nurture it or whatever it is they do instead of letting them play football, in the frst team in front of thousands. I think that works to our advantage now, most parents honestly would look past the early pound signs and ask the question. If my son is good enough. Will you play him? It's all the kid wants to do. Play. I guarantee at 14 or 15 they're not running around with their shirts over their heads thinking about 20 grand a week. No doubt the PL boast some of the greatest academies in the world but it's not often any other team than United throw them in as young as we do. Looks like we've got a good next crop coming through judging by the fact they beat City (an under 21 side costing 7m!!) but also off the back of winning 8 in a row. Once we promote a few more like Hanson, Mason will be a regular in the run in, kids from all over Britan will want to come here. Then they'll want to stay because their chances of first team appearances. Other clubs can only poach our kids if they want to leave. I hope there isn't a kidnapping clause snook in there somewhere! Category A or B, grade one or grade two. 35 coaches coaches or 18. None of it matters if you're not going to play them. With us the academy lads are at the heart of everything. We've been lucky to have produced a couple of very good players and fairly valuable assets. At Derby the second they are good enough they'll play. If they play well they'll get their move to the PL anyway. We sell when it's right for us as a club. Personally I'm of the opinion that our academy is going to fund the PL push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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