The basics... do we get them right?

[Mostyn6]

Not posted on here for a while, but i regularly visit to see how much the site has picked up since P**** G***** instigated the demise of the old DET forum. I do miss that place 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unsure:' />

Anyways, back on to the topic I wanted to discuss, and that's the basics of football.

There's obviously a split, albeit not 50-50, at the moment, maybe many splits. Some think Derby are doing well, some think Derby are underachieving. Some think we are where we are cos that's where we should be.

A lot has come out over the last few games about lack of perceived positive intent, and the poor statistics relating to shots, both on and off target.

Nigel Clough came out and said the team looked 'shattered' the other day, which is understandable, but I wonder whether it was avoidable.

Under Nigel Clough's management, Derby County have gone through repetitive cycles! We don't know which is next, but they all happen throughout a season. There's the spell where we play attacking football in waves and look like we could really achieve something. There's the spell where we play well, but cannot score, but scrape a 1-0 win or a draw. There's the spell when we look like we don't really know what that round thing is that the other men are kicking at that rectangle shaped thing with a net that the man with gloves stands in front of! More often than any other though, is the spell we seem to currently be in, where we kind of try very hard, put lots of effort in, but don't get much luck and lack any real bite, skill or confidence. Agree?

So the thing I wonder is, how do we get out of this spell? What causes us to fall into this spell so often, particularly away from Pride Park?

I think, the lack of 'doing the basics' correctly is a major factor. If anything, a fear creeps in and we become embroiled in a game we try to 'not lose' instead of a game we try to win. That may sound ridiculous to some, but I watch the game quite intensely, and notice when the players are based further back, and when they are closer together than normal, and when there are bigger gaps between the advanced edge of midfield and the isolated Connor Sammon.

I'll be interested tonight to see how spread out the players are against Bolton. I believe that it's counter-productive to our strengths to have all of our players so close together. We now have passing ability across midfield and this should allow us spread out more, thus avoiding two or three of our players closing down the same opponent at the same time and expending energy.

Another thing I'd like to see is at least three players near the centre circle or halfway line when defending corners. This would pin at least four Bolton players back, and also give us a chance of gaining possession from clearances, as opposed to the general trend of the ball keeps coming back until a shot is missed or the keeper catches the ball.

It's no secret to any of you on other forums, that I remain unconvinced by Nigel Clough, but this isn't a 'Clough Out' article. I think we've played poorly for probably 12 of the last 16 games. That said, we have had large spells of possession in many games, albeit without doing anything creative with the ball.

I think the 4-5-1 COULD work, but it relies a lot on your midfield being more advanced that we play our midfield, and not having every other player than Sammon scurrying in a panic to get behind the ball and defend. No wonder our players are knackered.

[TroyDyer]

I agree.

I also think a problem with our performances at this time of the season, is we're probably safe from relegation. Therefore, Mr Cloughs job is safe. It's been the same for 3 seasons.

I honestly think there are certain games (Away at Palace for instance) where Clough would actually take a 1-0 defeat. I can imagine the post match interview. "We matched the league leaders for large spells and with that extra bit of quality, we'd be right up there".

I watched that game and he didn't try and get a goal until we were 3 down.

That might be true about the lack of quality. But I don't think the lack of quality is just on the pitch. It's also in the dugout.

[Philmycock]

I agree.

I also think a problem with our performances at this time of the season, is we're probably safe from relegation. Therefore, Mr Cloughs job is safe. It's been the same for 3 seasons.

I honestly think there are certain games (Away at Palace for instance) where Clough would actually take a 1-0 defeat. I can imagine the post match interview. "We matched the league leaders for large spells and with that extra bit of quality, we'd be right up there".

I watched that game and he didn't try and get a goal until we were 3 down.

That might be true about the lack of quality. But I don't think the lack of quality is just on the pitch. It's also in the dugout.

You really hate Clough and all his signings don't you? Are you Billy Davies? Who would you rather have then??

[BOB BIGGS]

That might be true about the lack of quality. But I don't think the lack of quality is just on the pitch. It's also in the dugout.

I think I'm right that all Clubs in the Championship have changed managers in recent years except ourselves and Millwall. I don't see massive improvements all round. Some have got better, some have stayed the same, some have got worse. 3 of them will go up and 3 of them will go down. It's unlikely that Derby and Millwall will be involved in either scramble.

I'm sure NC gets things wrong at times. Who doesn't?

[Mostyn6]

Bob Biggs, that doesn't make sense to me, are you in favour of keeping managers or changing managers?

Some would argue that keeping a manager hasn't improved anything, whilst Cardiff, Hull, Leicester etc have changed theirs in the last year or two (and spend some money, but that's not the point).

I think all three promoted clubs to the championship had reasonably new managers, as did all three who got promoted from the championship!

[TroyDyer]

You really hate Clough and all his signings don't you? Are you Billy Davies? Who would you rather have then??

I don't HATE Clough. I just don't think he's a very good manager. And I certainly don't hate all his signings. I think Sammon is the worst 'first choice' striker we've had a Derby for a very very long time. But I rate other players highly. I also think a better manager would have these players competing higher up the table.

[DCFCfranco]

We need a few games where sammon doesn't play to see how important he is to the side IMO. If we play well then sammon was a waste of money if we don't sammon is more important to us than most people realise.

[Mr Tibbs]

Bob Biggs, that doesn't make sense to me, are you in favour of keeping managers or changing managers?

Some would argue that keeping a manager hasn't improved anything, whilst Cardiff, Hull, Leicester etc have changed theirs in the last year or two (and spend some money, but that's not the point).

I think all three promoted clubs to the championship had reasonably new managers, as did all three who got promoted from the championship!

Well, it kinda is if you name those 3 teams. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[Mostyn6]

We need a few games where sammon doesn't play to see how important he is to the side IMO. If we play well then sammon was a waste of money if we don't sammon is more important to us than most people realise.

In normal circumstances, I'd suggest this is a good idea, but two things here make me think it would be a futile experiment, 1)Sadly there is no alternative player to play the 'lump up-front' role and 2) As Clough spent so much of his budget on Sammon, he'll want to justify it (he already does!) and even it there was an alternative player, the team/tactics would conveniently make the replacement player look worse.

[Philmycock]

We need a few games where sammon doesn't play to see how important he is to the side IMO. If we play well then sammon was a waste of money if we don't sammon is more important to us than most people realise.

I don't think Sammon was ever bought to be an out and out goalscorer, that is what we need, but I do think he would assist a goalscorer perfectly, I also don't think Ward is the guy, I prefer him back on the wing

[DCFCfranco]

In normal circumstances, I'd suggest this is a good idea, but two things here make me think it would be a futile experiment, 1)Sadly there is no alternative player to play the 'lump up-front' role and 2) As Clough spent so much of his budget on Sammon, he'll want to justify it (he already does!) and even it there was an alternative player, the team/tactics would conveniently make the replacement player look worse.

Which sort of shows how important he is.

[Mostyn6]

Which sort of shows how important he is.

Well yeah, but only in the same way a prosthetic limb is! It's not as important as a real limb would be!

[DCFCfranco]

I don't think Sammon was ever bought to be an out and out goalscorer, that is what we need, but I do think he would assist a goalscorer perfectly, I also don't think Ward is the guy, I prefer him back on the wing

I know that sammon isn't a goalscorer. But people think that sammon is completely useless which is why I made that point.

[DCFCfranco]

Well yeah, but only in the same way a prosthetic limb is! It's not as important as a real limb would be!

Well we won't know how important he is until he misses a few games...'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

[cheron85]

I think, the lack of 'doing the basics' correctly is a major factor.

That said, we have had large spells of possession in many games, albeit without doing anything creative with the ball.

I think in one very large post you have both missed the point AND hit tha nail on the head...

The basics are things like tackling well and passing to your own players... maintaining posession is key to this... which is something we're good at... I'd say the basics we lack is tackling... but Nigel's system seems to be based on the 2-man press which works...

The issue we have is we don;t seem to have the quality to create chances when the team are tired... or away from home...

[Mostyn6]

I know that sammon isn't a goalscorer. But people think that sammon is completely useless which is why I made that point.

I think it's fair to say that Sammon isn't "fit for purpose". He's being asked to play a role which he's incapable of doing effectively/successfully.

Maybe he is a good team player, maybe he could be better at providing assists than scoring, BUT, he's not suited to the way we play.

[cheron85]

Also, who are these newbie haters who've crawled out of the woodwork?

[Mostyn6]

Also, who are these newbie haters who've crawled out of the woodwork?

Newbie?

Hater?

Is that aimed at me?

Click my picture and see when I joined, then click yours.... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

[EastKentRam]

Mostyn has been talking **** on Internet forums since before i was born.

I agree about Sammon and most of your other points.

[bcnram]

Nigel Clough came out and said the team looked 'shattered' the other day, which is understandable, but I wonder whether it was avoidable.

We depend on a high tempo game, all successful players work hard, all successful teams work hard. We don't have the luxury of a large squad so that we can rotate the team.

Under Nigel Clough's management, Derby County have gone through repetitive cycles! We don't know which is next, but they all happen throughout a season

That happens under all managers right from Brian Clough up to the present day. Teams have good spells and harder spells. Teams find something that works and other teams learn to counter it.... that is football.

Another thing I'd like to see is at least three players near the centre circle or halfway line when defending corners. This would pin at least four Bolton players back, and also give us a chance of gaining possession from clearances, as opposed to the general trend of the ball keeps coming back until a shot is missed or the keeper catches the ball.

This might work with eleven year olds but the fact of life is that there would be too much room in the penalty area. The advantage would be with the attacking team rather than the defending team.