Investment

[ramblur]

There's no evidence that a loan involves a loan fee and the player's wages,in fact what is commonly referred to as the 'loan fee' probably relates purely to the element of wages paid. The parent company would likely continue to pay the wages in full,whilst invoicing the lending club for the element of agreed wages.

There may be deviation when an expensive player in the Prem is loaned out.

[mcsilks]

There's no evidence that a loan involves a loan fee and the player's wages,in fact what is commonly referred to as the 'loan fee' probably relates purely to the element of wages paid. The parent company would likely continue to pay the wages in full,whilst invoicing the lending club for the element of agreed wages.

There may be deviation when an expensive player in the Prem is loaned out.

It's still more outgoings that we cannot afford and is adding to the clubs debt.

[ramblur]

It's still more outgoings that we cannot afford and is adding to the clubs debt.

I've never been keen on loans myself,and was merely making a point.

[Ambitious]

I'm not a big loan fan, but after the week we've had its bound to bring questions up about why we haven't: I just think it's an untapped source, and that we should be looking for good players that need game time.

Wickham was MOTM against us.

Didn't Hull's loan players get the goals.

And Gorks was instrumental for their Wolves.

I don't want to get into finances too much, I'm just saying - that we know loan moves can be done and in some cases, it's how you get by on small(er) budgets.

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

The current board arent taking the club anywhere. They refuse to give Clough a reasonable ammount of money to spend on transfers or wages. Then they put up the season ticket prices. What different will we get next season? My guess is nothing. They need to realise that without putting a reasonable ammount of money into the club were not gonna go anywhere!

Would somebody please like to tell me reasonable amount of money is? From reading news reports the owners have put in £50m isnt that a reasonable amount of money?

To mean thats an astonishingly large amount of money, bordering on ridiculous. So how much of somebody elses money would you like to spend?

Clough has prided himself on giving young lads a chance, he's actually built up a very good reputation for himself and players know this. Jacobs chose to come here because of the work Nigel has done with bringing young lads into the side. When building a reputation on playing young lads the first option should always be to try and solve the problem from within the squad, if your first thougt is to look into the loan market what kind of effect does that have on the up and coming players who are chomping at the biy? Hoganson got his chance on Saturday and he took it. Id much rather give somebody a chance than play another clubs player.

[cheron85]

"Ages ago" relates to mid way through last season,when he was asked about top 6 and pointed out we hadn't got 2 of the players we were supposed to have been chasing.Therefore Ward and Brayford were already there and Keogh/Sammon were replacements for Shackell/Savies (who were there when the comment was made).Therefore we're left with Jacobs and Hughes from your list.Jacobs isn't in the side on anything like a regular basis,because he's still learning the game.Hughes is a talent,but you can't expect too much (now) at his age.

Sammon's a different player than Savies... Savies was trying to play the target man role when he wasn't right for it... Sammon is...

And they've finally found the way to bring the quality out of Ward... play him up top with a big lad...

When clough was referring to quality he meant players with the ability to unlock a game... pretty sure that's what you are getting at as well... and I think the players we had last season weren't there yet, but now they are... Ward Jacobs and Hughes are all cabable, I'd argue that the Coutts/Brayford partnership is... Adn I'd say that Sammon provides the ideal focal point to all the industry of the CMs which we didn't have before...

You just need to look at our home record to show that for the first time in ages we're capable of unlocking defences... Just need to get a bit more experience to hold onto results away from home...

[rsmini]

Mr Clough will only bring in a loan player so he can have a look at him with a view to purchase in the summer. He will not bring anyone for a couple of games. The owners support the manager totally with whatever he wants. Trouble is Mr Clough does not like spending, he would rather bring through the younger players. He is well known for this amongst players.

Billy Davies is not interested in the academy side of things. Clough would rather see players develop and get a chance. He is still trying to clear up the mess previous managers left us in

[eddie]

I was going to start a thread called 'bore doubt' - but then I thought about the dangers of homonyms.

[needles]

I was going to start a thread called 'bore doubt' - but then I thought about the dangers of homonyms.

Homonyms? Can't be too carefull. Normal nyms I've no problem with...

[Uptherams]

The investment should come from the fans and not through the fans. Just because we play in the championship does not mean we cannot sell out every home match. Putting up ticket prices is a huge mistake and is not justified. When every match is a sell out and their becomes a waiting list/demand you put up prices.

Just look at the Bundesliga. Dortmund charge around £12 a ticket to sit/stand in one of their stands. The capacity of this stand...26,000. Our attendance is below 26,000 yet how much is our average adult ticket price?

[davenportram]

There's no evidence that a loan involves a loan fee and the player's wages,in fact what is commonly referred to as the 'loan fee' probably relates purely to the element of wages paid. The parent company would likely continue to pay the wages in full,whilst invoicing the lending club for the element of agreed wages.

There may be deviation when an expensive player in the Prem is loaned out.

did we pay ellington £1m in wages? Or was it a loan fee

[ramblur]

did we pay ellington £1m in wages? Or was it a loan fee

Yeh,I was waiting for that one.The Ellington deal wasn't a conventional season long loan and the fee was more like a quasi transfer fee,as we had the option to sign him on a free at the end of it.I suspect that the only reason we didn't sign him outright at the offset for £1m (or whatever) was that he would have been on good wages at Wigan,and probably wouldn't have wanted to forego that.The way it was done would have allowed him to keep his full Wigan wages,whilst effectively becoming a Derby player.Problem was he wasn't good enough to keep.

[ramblur]

Sammon's a different player than Savies... Savies was trying to play the target man role when he wasn't right for it... Sammon is...

And they've finally found the way to bring the quality out of Ward... play him up top with a big lad...

When clough was referring to quality he meant players with the ability to unlock a game... pretty sure that's what you are getting at as well... and I think the players we had last season weren't there yet, but now they are... Ward Jacobs and Hughes are all cabable, I'd argue that the Coutts/Brayford partnership is... Adn I'd say that Sammon provides the ideal focal point to all the industry of the CMs which we didn't have before...

You just need to look at our home record to show that for the first time in ages we're capable of unlocking defences... Just need to get a bit more experience to hold onto results away from home...

I have to say I think you're being a bit optimistic if you're talking about a tilt towards the top end of the table.Patches during a season aren't really good enough-you need consistency and it's a bit unfair to expect younger players to produce this.I see this very much as a race against time, because I can see a lot of fans scuttling the ship if there's not a serious assault on the top 6 next year

[LeedsCityRam]

I see this very much as a race against time, because I can see a lot of fans scuttling the ship if there's not a serious assault on the top 6 next year

I'm not entirely sure that will happen - I think all but the deluded few accept we're a midtable side building (very) slowly to a top 6 place. Even during the dark days of Burley's first year where our only ambition was not to go down (not his fault - just what he'd inherited), I can only remember our home gate going below 20,000 once.

As to the OP - its very easy shouting for "investment" but the fact is everyone else in the division is thinking the same & plenty doing it without obvious reward. Even mega millions haven't propelled Leicester to the top nor Forest out of midtable. It didn't work for us when good owd Lionel was splashing the cash in 92/93.

Building a successful team is about more than chucking cash at the problem. We're lacking a bit of experience & attacking flair - the first one will come in the next few months, the second relies on Clough to identify a reasonably priced player or two & trust them - even if their "workload" doesn't match Bryson/Buxton

[cheron85]

I have to say I think you're being a bit optimistic if you're talking about a tilt towards the top end of the table.Patches during a season aren't really good enough-you need consistency and it's a bit unfair to expect younger players to produce this.I see this very much as a race against time, because I can see a lot of fans scuttling the ship if there's not a serious assault on the top 6 next year

Maybe I am, but I'd rather be optimistic (even if it means dissapointment) than grumble all the time! (not accusing you of grumbling, you're not usually that bad)

I think the experience the young players have got from the last 2 seasons will mean they'll get more consistent next season... I think if you look at the performances you can see that even now... last season games like Hull away we would have lost 4 0...

[Mostyn6]

I'm not convinced that you need to do it any other way. History shows teams like Burnley, Blackpool, Wolves, Swansea, and maybe others have gained promotion with the right balance of cheap signings and youth and an effective manager.

[ramblur]

Maybe I am, but I'd rather be optimistic (even if it means dissapointment) than grumble all the time! (not accusing you of grumbling, you're not usually that bad)

I think the experience the young players have got from the last 2 seasons will mean they'll get more consistent next season... I think if you look at the performances you can see that even now... last season games like Hull away we would have lost 4 0...

I've never once grumbled about the team or the manager.I happen to think that this manager,despite the restrictions,will eventually get us promotion.However,I'm far from convinced that many of our fans will be so patient.If you view the squads as a pyramid,I think Clough,with the considerable input of Academy staff, has built a very sound base in the form of Academy and Development Squad,and has probably patiently built about 5/6 of the pyramid.Unfortunately,it's the final part that will prove to be most difficult.For those who want Nigel to be given one year more only,then fine as long as you also want him to be given the funds to finish the job next summer.

It now seems an eternity ago that Glick was telling us that a goalscorer was top priority (and he did have a knack of telling us things we wanted to hear).Some time later ( January 2012) he was telling us that BS was out of our range on 2 counts.Therefore,it would appear that a cheap goalscorer is our priority.You and others seem to think that it's just a case of throwing Nigel a few bob and he'll unearth a goalscoring gem-would that it was so simple.Tim Ward used to get that kind of thing from Longson and co.

As far as LeedsCityRam's contention that attendances will hold during a slow build,I'm far from convinced.I can only go on what I read on forums and hear on phone ins.If some fans are only willing to give Clough another season,that kind of implies that they want some measure of success next year,which is at odds with a continued slow build.If attendances (and income) do fall,then you could hardly see Clough's modest budget increasing.