Uptherams Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Theo can't bring others into play as well as Sammon can, and the midfield would be considerably less effective. It would basically be a waste of possession. Theo is also more effective when we are creating chances, something that he wouldn't help by being up front on his own. Think Leicester away last season. With the 4-4-1-1 the striker wouldn't be bringing others into play but the other way round. How would the midfield be considerably less effective? Derby can play Hendrick, Hughes and Bryson together in this formation and they would all be in positions they are most effective and prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 With the 4-4-1-1 the striker wouldn't be bringing others into play but the other way round. How would the midfield be considerably less effective? Derby can play Hendrick, Hughes and Bryson together in this formation and they would all be in positions they are most effective and prefer. So what you're saying is that somehow, possibly due to wizards, Theo with Hughes behind him, would have the physical presence between them to hold up the ball and bring others into the game? Or are you saying that you basically want us to squander possession threading it through to Theo to miscontrol all day? He's quick, but he's not going to score while on his own, and to be honest I think he'd look awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtableforever Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Or are you saying that you basically want us to squander possession threading it through to Theo to miscontrol all day? He's quick, but he's not going to score while on his own, and to be honest I think he'd look awful. Sounds familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbiean Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Could try going back to the 4-2-3-1 formation: Hendrick Bryson Hughes Jacobs Ward Sammon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 So what you're saying is that somehow, possibly due to wizards, Theo with Hughes behind him, would have the physical presence between them to hold up the ball and bring others into the game? Or are you saying that you basically want us to squander possession threading it through to Theo to miscontrol all day? He's quick, but he's not going to score while on his own, and to be honest I think he'd look awful. Sammon or Theo. I listed Sammon first. Why the hell has our most forward player/players got to (HOLD THE BALL UP) as the only priority. As if they have to wait for the rest of the team to catch up with the gap between the midfield and striker. The point of the attacking midfielder is to bridge the gap, no hold up play involved. Hughes V's Leeds, Blackpool and 20mins in the second half against Middlesbrough is evidence of why this would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sammon or Theo. I listed Sammon first. Why the hell has our most forward player/players got to (HOLD THE BALL UP) as the only priority. As if they have to wait for the rest of the team to catch up with the gap between the midfield and striker. The point of the attacking midfielder is to bridge the gap, no hold up play involved. Hughes V's Leeds, Blackpool and 20mins in the second half against Middlesbrough is evidence of why this would work. Okay then, explain in detail what you expect from a forward. Explain how Theo could work on his own up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Okay then, explain in detail what you expect from a forward. Explain how Theo could work on his own up front. Again, I have listed Sammon before Theo. But seeing as you even stated Theo's strengths...his pace... I will explain. Scenario: Derby win possession in midfield from the opposition. Hendrick or Bryson pass the ball to Hughes who is behind the opposition center midfielders. Hughes then runs at the center defenders. Whilst Hughes is doing so Theo does one of two things depending on the position of the center halves. He either runs through the middle of the two center defenders or stands just outside of one of the center halves waiting to be played in behind. Hughes could also play the ball out wide to the left or right and Theo could run to be on the end of a low, quick cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Everyone's a manager, aren't they! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Again, I have listed Sammon before Theo. But seeing as you even stated Theo's strengths...his pace... I will explain. Scenario: Derby win possession in midfield from the opposition. Hendrick or Bryson pass the ball to Hughes who is behind the opposition center midfielders. Hughes then runs at the center defenders. Whilst Hughes is doing so Theo does one of two things depending on the position of the center halves. He either runs through the middle of the two center defenders or stands just outside of one of the center halves waiting to be played in behind. Hughes could also play the ball out wide to the left or right and Theo could run to be on the end of a low, quick cross. But what about when Theo or Hughes have someone behind them and their backs against the goal. Neither of them will be able to hold it up surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothsayer Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sammon is better painting pictures with his feet than controlling a football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Again, I have listed Sammon before Theo. But seeing as you even stated Theo's strengths...his pace... I will explain. Scenario: Derby win possession in midfield from the opposition. Hendrick or Bryson pass the ball to Hughes who is behind the opposition center midfielders. Hughes then runs at the center defenders. Whilst Hughes is doing so Theo does one of two things depending on the position of the center halves. He either runs through the middle of the two center defenders or stands just outside of one of the center halves waiting to be played in behind. Hughes could also play the ball out wide to the left or right and Theo could run to be on the end of a low, quick cross. ...so basically we'd squander possession over and over putting ourselves under more pressure and lose the initiative very quickly. Fantastic stuff! In fact, has Theo even scored like that this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Theo's goals from this year: Derby 5 - 5 Ssausagehorpe (3-0) - Theo prods it home nearly on the line after Jacobs played it towards goal from a Coutts free kick Wolves 1 - 1 Derby (1-1) - Theo side foots it home in traffic from the left hand side of goal after a touch on from Coutts (I think, some reports seem to credit Bryson with the assist though) Middlesbrough 2 - 2 Derby (1-0) - Theo scored from the penalty spot. The penalty was from Bryson being brought down after a good run, with Theo having played Bryson in behind Derby 1 - 1 Blackburn (1-1) - Theo pounces after the keeper parries Bryson's shot in a crowded box, the shot is deflected into the net off the keeper Ipswich 1 - 2 Derby (1-1) - Theo pounces on a rebound from inside the 6 yard box after Sammon's shot is saved Derby 4 - 1 Blackpool (1-0) - Theo side foots in a low cross just outside the 6 yard box, Theo and Bryson heavily involved in the build up Derby 4 - 1 Blackpool (3-1) - Theo pounced on a bad pass well out the box, before running at pace towards goal. He got past one player with a clever first touch before he used his pace to get in behind before finishing calmly between the keepers legs Derby 1 - 1 Cardiff (1-1) - Sammon played in Bryson who got the ball square in front of goal where Theo put it away from a yard or so out right in the centre Leicester 4 - 1 Derby (2-1) - Jacobs lofts a lovely ball through to Theo who got between two defenders before volleying it home Long story short, he knows how to get in the right place at the right time, and he's got some raw pace, but again, someone needs to be along side him to help make those chances. He's got some tap ins, a penalty, a couple of neat finishes in a crowded area, but only one goal from his pace, and that was from a defensive error on a day we scored 4. He's got that goal sense, and that's good in and of itself, but you can't expect him to be the loan striker regardless of how many attacking midfielders you feel like having. He's not got the technical ability to be a false 9, and whilst he can get in the right place at the right time, if he's the focal point of the attack, it would become all too predictable all too quickly, regardless of how many players who be playing him in. He also isn't as good as Sammon at bringing others into play, which wouldn't help the above situation either. Speaking of Theo and Sammon though, for this season: Theo Robinson - 25 games, 9 goals, no assists Conor Sammon - 27 games, 7 goals, 3 assists To be honest, I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to start Sammon with his record so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Speaking of Theo and Sammon though, for this season: Theo Robinson - 25 games, 9 goals, no assists Conor Sammon - 27 games, 7 goals, 3 assists To be honest, I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to start Sammon with his record so far. Play them both up front! or is that too radical. Then ward on the wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Play them both up front! or is that too radical. Then ward on the wing Read my exchange with "Uptherams", my entire point is that they both work best as a front two, whilst they suggested a lineup like: 4-4-1-1 Midfield _ Jacobs - Bryson - Hendrick - Ward Attacking Midfield (centre)_ Hughes Striker_Sammon or Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Read my exchange with "Uptherams", my entire point is that they both work best as a front two, whilst they suggested a lineup like: Coutts Hendrick Bryson Ward Robinson Sammon Is Miles better than Jacobs Bryson Hendrick ward Hughes Sammon Firmly on your side Albert. In my opinion we should have 2 up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 One thing i noticed yesterday. The balls passed into sammon were rubbish. A good ball to a forward wouldn't need good control. I think people need to look at the poor balls / service he receives before shouting about how poor he is. i thought the same. Everytime a player didn't get on the end of a pass the guys sat behind me blamed the receiver. They never blamed the passer for the underhit pass, the pass 5 yards away from the man or the overhit rocket at soneone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShermanCardenas Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Play them both up front! or is that too radical. Then ward on the wing You mean 2 upfront? no no no no no we don't do that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 You mean 2 upfront? no no no no no we don't do that here. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unsure:' /> sorry i have just looked back over my mistake and realised where i have gone wrong. It was a foolish decision on my behalf to even contemplate having 2 players in the striker role. How silly. That would mean Sammon had some support.... Unthinkable. Sorry if anyone was offended by my naivety in putting forward this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unsure:' /> sorry i have just looked back over my mistake and realised where i have gone wrong. It was a foolish decision on my behalf to even contemplate having 2 players in the striker role. How silly. That would mean Sammon had some support.... Unthinkable. Sorry if anyone was offended by my naivety in putting forward this idea. yes i was seriously offended. apologise at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 yes i was seriously offended. apologise at once Sorry I swear to never ever ever ever even consider putting forward the idea of 442 or 4312. it was especially wrong of me to think Robinson and Sammon could be seen on a football pitch together. I will hang my head in shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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