uttoxram75 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 There is a large fanbase who no longer go regularly (unlike Boycie 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> ), and can't or won't commit weeks in advance for whatever reason. The club needs to find a way to encourage some of these to "impulse" buy, pay on the day, cash gate, whatever. Maybe a section for say a 1,000 unreserved seats, £20 on the day? Don't know, just making it up really, but I do know people who think its too much hassle to go if they suddenly get the urge a day or two before the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Maybe the new chief exec has views on the current pricing policy. Anyone have an email address for him? Would be interested to see if he is as available & communicative as tom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 for anyone like me who works saturdays and only goes to the odd game hither and thither on impulse, its a nightmare. if you can plan ahead then it works- unfortunately this seems to be a minority, but then you're always more likely to speak if something is going poorly than going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Just a reminder of the background:- [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/the-price-is-really-right-dynamic-ticketing-could-transform-the-way-we-pay-to-see-live-events-8215701.html]http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/the-price-is-really-right-dynamic-ticketing-could-transform-the-way-we-pay-to-see-live-events-8215701.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Rambler Appreciate the feedback there, as always when it comes to the accounts. Scary thing is, assuming that number doesn't include cup matches, which it may well do, it comes out at £9.28 per person. That for me is a scarily low number as its less than the cost of concession tickets and shows the free tickets they give away. I know John vicars has said revenue per seat is up this year compared to last season, but I would be interested to know how much more the club generates by having additional people in the ground, and coming to games. Cup numbers would probably be up, match day income would increase be it programme sales, merchandise, programmes bought, car park sales etc. I think to a degree football tickets are price elastic. Knock every ticket down to a fiver for a Saturday game against Peterborough and the stadium will sell out. Knock every adult ticket down to 20 quid for every match in a season, how many additional sales would that generate. I think it would by 3-4000. I think there is something to be said that you know how much a ticket will cost. Anyway, the club will continue to adopt its American policies frustratingly, and we have to accept them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Article in yesterdays Independent...... John Vicars is talking when his computer screen causes distraction. "Oh, it's just come through there with regards to the game tomorrow with Birmingham City," he says. The timing is good. Vicars, the operations director at Derby County, is talking about direct ticket pricing, when the direct ticket pricing system effectively starts talking to him. Buying a ticket for a Derby County game, you see, is not like buying a ticket for the vast majority of football clubs in this country. It's actually more like buying a flight, or a ticket to the theatre. If you leave it late, you're taking a gamble, especially for the big games. At Pride Park, you could have bought a single ticket for the final game of the season against Millwall before a ball had been kicked in August. That is not the norm. Traditionally, a football fan can buy a season ticket or do it game-by-game. In recent years the half-season ticket has increased in popularity. At Derby, you can get either of those, or a six- or four-game bundle, and the key here is, what goes in that bundle of games will be the Derby fan's choice, a kind of pick-and-mix with football matches. "Eighteen months or so ago we saw the effects of the economy on attendances, not just at pride Park but across the board," he adds. "We did a couple of experiments where we lowered drastically the price of tickets down to around £10 and we saw a tremendous pick up in sales. From that we got the view that in an ever challenging economy, there was a price point people were prepared to pay and one they weren't. "We wanted the flexibility to alter prices for every game, but not upset the season-ticket holders who pay for they tickets in advance. I went to the States and spoke to the San Francisco Giants, who were the first sports team in the world who took the Digonex dynamic pricing model. It had been used in airlines and hotels for years. They brought Digonex's software into baseball. I spent time there and in Minnesota with the basketball team. "It really appealed to me, in the laws of supply and demand, the ticket price fluctuates. Secondly, you inform the season-ticket holder not to think about their season ticket as dividing it by 23. We have categorised the games for years, gold and silver or whatever, so we explained all 23 games were not priced the same to start with. The pledge we made was we would never sell a ticket lower than you paid for it. "The Tuesday night games struggle to sell to a Saturday attendance level. Most people with season-ticket packages realised they're reasonably cheap. The season-ticket holder is paying around seven or eight pounds for that seat. That gives us the ability to start prices at nine or 10 pounds. "At Derby we put all our tickets on sale at the beginning of the season. If you want to get a cheap return ticket to Malaga, when the prices come out and you get in early they are usually cheap. If you leave it until the day before you're probably going to pay top dollar. That is the system." The Football League has given Derby dispensation to let them trial the Digonex system (usually you can only alter the prices for four games per season) and they pay the American company an annual fee for their software. Cardiff have followed. Bristol City are considering it. Two Premiership rugby clubs are about to use it and big European clubs, for whom the model will be better suited (last minute pricing for a big game will go up) are keen to use it. The model is used increasingly through American sport. Significantly, none who have trialled it have gone back to the old fashioned model of how to sell tickets for sports events. "People always ask about the weather," Vicars says. "We are taking into account all factors. If we got three or four inches of snow and it was pretty unpleasant, with this system, we have the ability to adjust ticket prices downwards. I know what the local market will and won't stand. "The system reports to us on a daily basis and recommends increases or decreases. I can override that. If it comes up at 75 quid for the Nottingham Forest game, I can override that!" Derby are 13th in the Championship. Their average attendance is the third best in the division, but then it was last season. Impressively, no attendance has dropped beneath 20,000 for a league game this season. They expect to top 22,000 tomorrow teatime for the visit of Birmingham City. "Birmingham on Saturday, for a televised game (that knocks attendance) in our category E, tickets are currently £16 for adults and £4 for under-18s," adds Vicars. Twenty pounds for a dad and his son to watch a Championship derby? Sounds reasonable, but you had better be quick, it might change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 There must have been a run on CatE Adult tickets , they've gone upto £33 for adults but the kids have stated at £4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 There must have been a run on CatE Adult tickets , they've gone upto £33 for adults but the kids have stated at £4 And that is the problem. Who is going to pay £33.00 especially when on telly. Far to much. By puttung that price out they have stopped sales imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 That original ticket in my initial pst is 36 quid now. I don't want to put any fan off coming but 36 quid for a game on the tele? Ridiculous. 22,000 for a game against Birmingham when we have 33,000 seats. Ridiculous. Does he think he is doing a good job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Rob Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Funny. Looking at the website today I see this: Tickets are available from as little as £21 for adults, £14.50 for senior citizens and £6 for under 18s. http://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/article/derby-vs-birmingham-ticket-reminder-505720.aspx Seems perfectly reasonable to me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 He must of hit the overide button this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 That original ticket in my initial pst is 36 quid now. I don't want to put any fan off coming but 36 quid for a game on the tele? Ridiculous. 22,000 for a game against Birmingham when we have 33,000 seats. Ridiculous. Does he think he is doing a good job? But how many people bought at 25-28 weeks ago that wouldn't buy at £30 if it had been that price from going on sale like last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 The fact that our attendances have dropped markedly from last season confirms that the Diognex software model is seriously flawed. I suggest that we get rid of this costly system and implement a far more transparent and simple one. We are not an airline or train company whose customers are buying for essential travel. Attending a football match is for enjoyment and excitement, and is obviously dependent on the teams fortunes and the supporters priorities near to the day of the game. If at that point the price is too high, then that supporter will not attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 The other fundamental difference is that a lot of people travelling on airlines are trains are doing so through compulsory work requirements. Either getting to work or for work trips. I fly a lot but I don't pay for it so I don't care too much on the price. A derby game is an entirely leisurely case and therefore there is no essential requirement to go to a game. For me, a fair majority of people who will buy weeks in advance (forest and Leeds aside) would be those people who buy season tickets anyway. So I think it's flawed. Larger attendances has a more intangible benefit - being able to attract players, more likely to be chosen for sky etc, plus I think away fans Re more inclined to travel if they know there will be 30,000 there. I certainly would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Rambler Appreciate the feedback there, as always when it comes to the accounts. Scary thing is, assuming that number doesn't include cup matches, which it may well do, it comes out at £9.28 per person. That for me is a scarily low number as its less than the cost of concession tickets and shows the free tickets they give away. I know John vicars has said revenue per seat is up this year compared to last season, but I would be interested to know how much more the club generates by having additional people in the ground, and coming to games. Cup numbers would probably be up, match day income would increase be it programme sales, merchandise, programmes bought, car park sales etc. I think to a degree football tickets are price elastic. Knock every ticket down to a fiver for a Saturday game against Peterborough and the stadium will sell out. Knock every adult ticket down to 20 quid for every match in a season, how many additional sales would that generate. I think it would by 3-4000. I think there is something to be said that you know how much a ticket will cost. Anyway, the club will continue to adopt its American policies frustratingly, and we have to accept them. The figures will include our share of cup revenues.For instance,the 08/09 total figure came in at £8.266m ex vat,but this featured our good cup runs.I remember a long exchange with davenport over freebies (probably on the DET),when we didn't know the 9/10 figure of £6.319m. I remember saying that my cup estimate of £1.5m to £2m would probably indicate a good number of freebies/heavily discounted tickets for league games.The difference between the 2 seasons was £1.947m,but you have to adjust the 9/10 figure (for comparison) by taking out the small amount of cup income and adding something in to cover the fall in league attendances compared to the previous year. Having done this,it would be difficult to imagine the cup revenues for 08/09 falling outside the £1.5m to £2m I'd predicted. One of the things that worries me about the new system is that ,whilst it boosts cash flow for early sales,there'll be a sting in the tail towards the end of the season when cash receipts will be a bit thin and early bird renewals for the following season would appear to be swallowed by repayment requirements of the so called revolving loan. I can't pretend I've an answer to the ticketing dilemma,as it seems to me that the requirement to keep S/T holders happy sabotages anything you might like to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 If as claimed by the club, revenue per seat has increased there is a chance that the increase could offset the 15% drop in attendances. Guess we will know when the accounts for this season are published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Funny. Looking at the website today I see this: Tickets are available from as little as £21 for adults, £14.50 for senior citizens and £6 for under 18s. http://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/article/derby-vs-birmingham-ticket-reminder-505720.aspx Seems perfectly reasonable to me!! ive been thinkin about this while having me din dins. yesterday i spent about £180 on concert tickets for gigs next summer. when the time comes to vo to the gigs i'll make sure i plan my work around them so my arguments that: a. its too expensive b. i don't want to buy tickets months in advance. c. i could be working on the day of the game. are all invalid. so what it comes down to is that football in general is pretty **** at the moment, and watching Derby in particular is even shitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Ramblur - I shouldn't have taken my average price rear head, rather than by income per seat in the ground, which probably takes my number down to about £6 per seat. Now if every game was £10, do I think we would see a sell out every game? I don't know but I think it would be close. We sold out pretty much most games in the terrible premiership season and that shows it is possible. Anyway, heading to the game now in the rain. Wonder if diginex pricing has decreased substantially to take into account the shocking weather! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 i guess what it boils down to is: are you interested enough to buy tickets months in advance to get a reasonable price? (for me the answer is no) but i would say that for the majority that if you arent interested enough to buy your tkts cheap in advance then you wouldnt be ingeresged enough to buy your tkt at an inflated price near the time of the game, which is where the system is failing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I've got a question for those people who are buying tickets in advance at the cheaper price: Would you have bought those tickets last year at the normal price of around £23-26? If the answer to that is yes then they are actually losing revenue from the early takers as well as losing revenue from the people who would buy tickets at the last minute under the old system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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