Can we reclaim that magic?

[dx7778]

[url=http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Lethal-Portuguese-striker-Eusebio-Benfica-pals/story-16871721-detail/story.html]http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Lethal-Portuguese-striker-Eusebio-Benfica-pals/story-16871721-detail/story.html

Sorry couldnt post the full stuff in here but wanted to know

• if it is ever possible to reclaim that aura the rams had in the 70's. Also to be more constructive in discussion what possible ways in the current scenario will you suggest changes in the approach the club should take.
  
  
  • We can also discuss about what went wrong or right in the last 4 years and what you could expect in the remainder of clough's contract till 2013.
    
    
    • What would you do if you were given 5 years to possibly try and be as close to success as the team in the 70's did?
      

    [*]Lets look at it in a 5 year basis instead of instant success like splashing cash to bring in players.

    [*]The current players, How good are they to be part of a 5 year plan.

[Pearl Ram]

Just to address point one of your post, no, I don't think it would be possible to reclaim that aura the club had in the 70's.

If Liverpool are struggling to be top 4 material, what chance do we or indeed a lot of other clubs have ?

Sadly the game has changed too much now and a miracle working management team mixed with a bunch of honest pro's are not enough return the club to it's former glories. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

[Shake n Bake]

In the 70s we won the league twice. To get back to that in 5 years we'd need to invest at least 100million in players. There's no other way to do it, unless 18 wonderkids suddenly come through the academy. This ain't football manager.

[Pearl Ram]

The thing is Shake, if we got any wonderkids come through from the academy, the big boys would just cherry pick them with promises of wages we couldn't match.

Also, I don't know if 100 million would be enough, again, if we look at the Liverpool model, they have spent a damn sight more than that to achieve little, as has Learner at Villa, I reckon we'd need to maybe treble that amount to become a top 6 outfit.

[dx7778]

Well certainly not PL title & European glory like the 70's surely, Hence i said the term "close to Success" in there. I see a Champioship title win as a huge success.

I also remember Ipswich getting promoted to PL and then finishing 4th in the league and seeing European Football that wasnt too long ago.

Just wanted to know what are the obvious sticking points that are hurdles to these achievements and what would you do to address those if given 5 years time.

Also has clough laid foundations for derby for the future?

[Duracell]

The only way that Derby will be back on top if is English football implodes and reboots to the old League model or Bundesliga model. We could really compete under those conditions. Maybe the 70s-levels of success are out of reach but I'm confident in my lifetime we'll better what Jim Smith did.

It's really, really sad that the other article on that site was completely ignored with no comments on it at all. Steve Bloomer was the greatest player to ever play for us, and 100 years on, he is pretty much forgotten.

Imagine if in 60 years time, an article about Brian Clough was totally ignored...

But back to Derby County. The money circulating in English football is shrinking. As the game gets stronger in other countries, from Asia to South America, the PL loses a little bit of interest year on year. The Prem doesn't have the best players anymore - La Liga has. The Premier League doesn't offer the most exciting and competitive football - the Bundesliga does.

Banks are starting to ask for their money back, revenues are falling and fans are losing interest. Either clubs are ignoring these signs or spending money like its goin out of fashion because it soon will be. Just look at how Blackburn have spent. If they don't go up this season, that's another spot in the Premier League and maybe this league up for grabs.

English football's bubble will burst soon, and our future is determined by how sensibly we are run when the bubble bursts. If it happens in the next five years, then we will be able to thank the current regime for a new golden era.

Or, we could be sat in mid-table Championship football waiting for something bad to happen to everyone else for another decade.

[MuespachRam]

Quite simply- nope, it will never happen again.

[Alph]

See, I just don't see what's going to go wrong. How will the bubble burst?

Champions League revenue ensures the very biggest clubs will still be raking it in when the FFP comes in. If it even works. Man United will still make more than Derby. WBA being in the PL will still make much more than Derby. Everything might be scaled down a bit. But that's not going to change much.

United etc will have access to things Derby can't. Private tv for example. Pay per view. They'll all scheme to keep the top 4/5 exclusive and the continue to play for a champion.

I can see us getting back up. Who can't see that as possible? I can see any Championship side getting up. Getting up and staying up and flirting with the Europa League are probably our limits. Exciting limits mind.

But the only thing that can topple United are big spending Arabs/Russian gangsters pumping cash in to bring you level with the money makers already at the top.

'The FFP will stop that' is the cry from every club in the country....... Well great, NOW how do you dream of breaking the money bags sitting in the top 5? That was the only hope. Money, ambition and some good planning. Now the FFP takes away the money. The most powerful tool to winning the Premiership. Cheers

Clubs probably won't go out like Pompey. Which is great.

Teams might drop from greatness. Liverpool for example. But how often? Liverpool have been replaced by City. United will be replaced by the next big spender or perhaps the FFP will protect them just in time. But once the top 5 is picked they're going to dominate for a decade or more.

We might benefit more from FFP than QPR. But that's about all the boost we'll get.

[dx7778]

It's really, really sad that the other article on that site was completely ignored with no comments on it at all. Steve Bloomer was the greatest player to ever play for us, and 100 years on, he is pretty much forgotten.

Banks are starting to ask for their money back, revenues are falling and fans are losing interest. Either clubs are ignoring these signs or spending money like its goin out of fashion because it soon will be. Just look at how Blackburn have spent. If they don't go up this season, that's another spot in the Premier League and maybe this league up for grabs.

Yes, I read the bloomer thread in the same site and surprised that there isnt a single comment in it. The great thing about the thread is steve himself decades ago told that proffessional footballers are paid too much and this is very much relavent to this age too.

i see 50 Mil transfer for Torres?, 35 mil for Caroll?? I mean Sturridge had way better season than tores had last season right? and caroll man what can i say?

Football is certainly a bubble now in terms of money spinning and is reaching dangerous proportions solely due to the fact that marketing a club and finding newer pastures for fans has taken over building a strong core following in your geography and traditional centres around the world and letting the performance on the pitch find newer fans who will stick to it.

But coming back to this topic, I see derby can try for success only if they invest a lot in youth academy and scouting, Self funding via thier own incomes and sell high after buying cheap. this way they can keep adding to the squad decent deal of quality(AKA saints) and show consistant improvement every season in terms of performances.

Bottom line, The revenues & Global coverage earned in PL are too enormous to ignore and something that derby needs to understand and get there and stay there and build a team that can be atleast as good as the 90's.

[dx7778]

Also to further comment on duracell's post, The EPL isnt losing intrest at all atleast not in Asia. This is where the economy growth is and the bulging Middle class in each country.

PL knows that and they are tapping it. Mind you Bundesliga and La Liga might have better quality but they do not connect to the average fan of the game as that of the english football with all the british history in asia.

No wonder the only PL sponsered tournament in the world is held in SE asia every year just before the charity shield, so they are tapping the market for sure.

Also an emerging trend is globalisation, you will see a lot more asian houses investing in football in england so money isnt dropping its just being churned. If owners are stingy in UK and US, they you have cash purses ready to be opened by potential owners in Asia, No wonder Rovers and QPR are held by indians.

[Duracell]

See, I just don't see what's going to go wrong. How will the bubble burst?

Champions League revenue ensures the very biggest clubs will still be raking it in when the FFP comes in. If it even works. Man United will still make more than Derby. WBA being in the PL will still make much more than Derby. Everything might be scaled down a bit. But that's not going to change much.

United etc will have access to things Derby can't. Private tv for example. Pay per view. They'll all scheme to keep the top 4/5 exclusive and the continue to play for a champion.

I can see us getting back up. Who can't see that as possible? I can see any Championship side getting up. Getting up and staying up and flirting with the Europa League are probably our limits. Exciting limits mind.

But the only thing that can topple United are big spending Arabs/Russian gangsters pumping cash in to bring you level with the money makers already at the top.

'The FFP will stop that' is the cry from every club in the country....... Well great, NOW how do you dream of breaking the money bags sitting in the top 5? That was the only hope. Money, ambition and some good planning. Now the FFP takes away the money. The most powerful tool to winning the Premiership. Cheers

Clubs probably won't go out like Pompey. Which is great.

Teams might drop from greatness. Liverpool for example. But how often? Liverpool have been replaced by City. United will be replaced by the next big spender or perhaps the FFP will protect them just in time. But once the top 5 is picked they're going to dominate for a decade or more.

We might benefit more from FFP than QPR. But that's about all the boost we'll get.

Everything you mention there is based on the assumption that European football is going to have money in it. If Europe goes bysr or club football in Asia keeps growing as it is - or, perhaps both - there's wont be anywhere near as much money in it.

Anything with as much greed and disproportion as English football eventually falls. It just won't last forever.

[uttoxram75]

Duracell has a point however I think it will take a lot longer for the bubble to burst than he thinks.

The EPL and english football in general is not losing out - in fact the revenues are up over all I believe. What the already wealthy clubs are doing is to stop the "trickle down" effect, ie the money that ends up in the lower leagues and grassroots football.

The fair play rules combined with the elite academy scheme have been bought in just for that reason. It will be increasingly harder for clubs to break into the elite over the next 5 years enabling those already at the top to perpetuate the virtual mini-league at the top of the EPL.

[needles]

If Derby and anyone else outside the top few are to have a sporting chance at competing, I'd like to see a European Super League take man u, city, chelsea etc out of the way.

I could ignore that just as easily as I ignore the Prem when Derby aren't in it, and maybe English football titles could get back to being meaningful instead of a prize for who's got the keenest billionaire or most plastics in a different continent.

It might even happen. The problem would be how to handle the break away. If the current FA set up and club boards were in charge with the current models entact, you'd just replace one hierarchy with another, but if a real effort was made to sensibly regulate squad sizes, wages, and football budgets generally it might just be possible to turn the clock back. That in turn can't happen while the FA are obliged to be federated to corrupt schemes like UEFA and FIFA. I can't see that changing any time soon though.

[Boycie]

Can we have an easyier question please.

[Bris Vegas]

If they create a superleague then I'll watch that.. And I'm not ashamed in any way to admit it.. I watch football and I like to see good football, I really would lose interest if they started replacing top high-profile footballers with mediocre NPC games.. I'd rather watch Sevilla play Valencia anyday of the week than Leicester play Blackpool for exapmple..

People who claim the PL is the biggest in the world are right.. But that's only because of the top 4 or 5.. Seriously, no-one gives a damn about Fulham vs Norwich.. People rarely knows the players and the football can be seriously drab.. People watch Utd, City, Chelsea, Arsenal because they have the best players and the most foreigners (which appeal to foreign people - the amount of Mexicans that watch Utd just for Chicharito or Barcelona when they had Marquez is huge)

People claim the bubble will burst.. It won't, it seriously won't, because the top clubs have more fans willing to pay to watch their games via TV etc.. than you can even imagine).. If you take away those players, fans will lose interest.. FFP is designed to keep the top 5 at the top, because the revinue they earn through TV and merchandise in other countries is massive.. FFP will now stop someone like Derby County thrashing money around to even reach their level, we'll never reach their level any other way it's impossible.

[Duracell]

Nothing lasts for ever. Rome fell. Nazi Germany fell. The Tudors fell. English football will fall.

We only have United that is a big club off its own back left as a giant force. Arsenal and Liverpool aren't challenging for major silverware any time soon, other than the FA Cup. They'll go out of the mindset of the new markets soon.

Our other two big teams are just play things for rich men in Chelsea an City. At the moment, it's very fashionable to show off your wealth by owning an English football team, or a team in Europe. City's owners or Abramovich could easily have gone for teams in Spain instead - and then we really would only have United as a CL threat.

Why will this always be the case? When will they start to get bored? When will they start to take more of an interest in clubs from their own country? Some of them already are.

Most of Man United's fan base, depending on how you count it, is in Asia now. But Asian football is growing. Didier Drogba plays on their doorstep. The Japanese league is very well attended for a proffesional game that hasn't even existed for 20 years yet. Gradually, the Chinese, Malaysians, Japanese and Koreans will start to follow their own football far closer. Or, failing that, they'll start to follow PSG, Zenit, Anzhi, or whoever else in Europe can afford to buy vastly superior players to Arsenal and Liverpool.

And still, I must stress this again - English football, all of it, is based on the banks being kind to them.

It can't be assumed they'd be kind forever.

[Gerry Daly]

The only way that Derby will be back on top if is English football implodes and reboots to the old League model or Bundesliga model. We could really compete under those conditions. Maybe the 70s-levels of success are out of reach but I'm confident in my lifetime we'll better what Jim Smith did.

It's really, really sad that the other article on that site was completely ignored with no comments on it at all. Steve Bloomer was the greatest player to ever play for us, and 100 years on, he is pretty much forgotten.

Imagine if in 60 years time, an article about Brian Clough was totally ignored...

But back to Derby County. The money circulating in English football is shrinking. As the game gets stronger in other countries, from Asia to South America, the PL loses a little bit of interest year on year. The Prem doesn't have the best players anymore - La Liga has. The Premier League doesn't offer the most exciting and competitive football - the Bundesliga does.

Banks are starting to ask for their money back, revenues are falling and fans are losing interest. Either clubs are ignoring these signs or spending money like its goin out of fashion because it soon will be. Just look at how Blackburn have spent. If they don't go up this season, that's another spot in the Premier League and maybe this league up for grabs.

English football's bubble will burst soon, and our future is determined by how sensibly we are run when the bubble bursts. If it happens in the next five years, then we will be able to thank the current regime for a new golden era.

Or, we could be sat in mid-table Championship football waiting for something bad to happen to everyone else for another decade.

I understand you are quite a young person and even if you were not, I would still be extremely impressed by the amount of sense you invariably post

[MuespachRam]

Chinese, japanese, korean football will never be as big as English football, never ever. They simply dont have the history.

Back to the original question, Derby will never break into the top 4, well, certainly not in anyone on heres life time.

[Duracell]

I understand you are quite a young person and even if you were not, I would still be extremely impressed by the amount of sense you invariably post

Thank you Mr Daly, about time someone noticed 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[Alph]

I hope your right Duracell. I really, really do.