Flying Fokker

CCFC Season ticket holder/ Follow Rams from a distance having been born Derby.  
 

Waghorn…Save your money.  He’s not going to do anything to justify paying his wages.

Godden….Sky Blues need to keep him.  If he moves to you, don’t expect a hatful of goals, but a player who creates and takes players away from your main striker.  As I say, he should remain in Coventry as he’s a grafter.

ATB for the game.  Rubbish league.  Don’t do a Coventry and spend a few seasons in L1 then drop further.  
 

This will not happen of course. The Rams need a bit of luck in appointing good managers. None of us know what the next 46 games will throw up, but at least there are 4 weeks to bring in some more players and offload anyone who isn’t behind the team.   

There are some big clubs in L1. Shame…

Waghorn 1     Tyler Walker 2.    

11 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

In 3 seasons time I reckon the EFL will not exist in its current form and will have been replaced ?

2 tier premiership?  There are many clubs in League One that could put up a good case for being in it.

17 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I think this thread should stand as a tribute to all those "experts", from other clubs in particular, who insisted that Derby would be liquidated because HMRC would want to make an example of us. I never believed that, because all HMRC ever wanted was to be in a position where they couldn't be disregarded. However, I always believed that liquidation was entirely possible if an acceptable offer wasn't forthcoming, but thankfully it was. 

The bitter tears of our enemies will sustain me for years. ? 

I felt Derby would survive.  Too big a club.  The Admin blew opportunities.  Not many clubs in admin have so many bidders as well. 

13 hours ago, Hanny said:

Hello all! I just responded to someone in another thread, but wanted to post it here, as it’s admin focused.

Seems folks are debating the meaning of “the debts are cleared”.
 

I may be very wrong on my thinking here. but it was my understanding that the amount paid (25p/pound). Was the agreed amount by creditors as well as EFL/etc. Meaning that if someone (Now Clowes) agrees to pay the 25p up front, the rest of the debt will be wiped. 

Surely that’s the whole purpose of having an administration process. 
 

So, if My thinking is correct on this- yes, the debts will now be all cleared after the creditors/etc agreed to be paid 25p/pound, as opposed to being paid zero pounds for watching the team go bankrupt. 
 

Is this not correct? Am I completely ignorant of insolvency law in the UK (this is likely?)? Or are you lot just arguing semantics? ?

I think the debt is there albeit a damn sight less than when in admin.  Clowes will carry the cost of the business as serviceable debt and could well charge high (ish) interest on the money the company owes him.  Nothing unusual in that unless he decides to call the debt in or sells the club of course.

29 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Only in Yorkshire would the phrasing ‘supercomputer’ be taken at face value.

“It’s been dun by one o’ them soopercomputers they have in t’london”

That’s some computer.  

35 minutes ago, Hanny said:

I’m assuming these are just wild rumors about MA. As if he all of a sudden wanted to plunk down a large bid, it doesn’t make a ton of sense. As all involved (supporters included) will say something like:

 ‘you were prepared to pay THIS much the entire time, yet you let the club bleed and lose assets…for what?!’

Also, with Clowes now owning PP- I suppose he could say the cost of that stadium has now doubled. As it’s no longer a distressed asset, and in good standing. Same with the club. If Clowes is essentially signed off with ‘saving’ the club, by providing enough funding, Then MA has lost the position of being able to say HE saved the club. At this point he would just be wresting the club away from the person that was first through the wall to actually save the club.  ?‍♂️  
 

Regardless- if MA were to come in with a larger bid at this stage, would be viewed as a pretty crap move as far as common decency is concerned, and would actually be against good-faith negotiating practices. Basically every business entity involved would think he’s a douche-bag for doing it this way. And his credibility/trust would be eroded a fair bit. 

The stadium is a lame duck until someone plays in it.  

6 hours ago, Osbaldwick said:

It really doesn’t matter that Rooney’s gone. We did ok in difficult circumstances when he was here and had some great experiences in extremis, but it was not amazing football. We will be less appealing to loanees but at least we exist! That’s the main thing. Happy to have a battling season, or several, in league one. It’s the competition that counts, and having something to care for on Saturday. 

I’m biased,  Cov first.    Anyone can argue the toss as to whether Rooney was ‘The Man’.  I don’t like the guy but he has even grown on me.  Not my hero.  Then again, I don’t do that.
 

County need to appoint an experienced journeyman in the short term in my opinion.  Someone to set the foundations in place. Coventry City chose cheap and nasty managers for several years after admin.  Some real rubbish.   Their budget has been tightly controlled ever since, as it is currently in the bottom 5 Championship funds for players.    Mark Robbins is not currently available!  

it will be an interesting few years at Derby.  High fan base, in a physical league and some big name clubs.  As has been said many a time,  it would be great to talk football. 
 

So, I guess Rooney took the idea of Freeman of The City of Derby too literally.   
 

I never agreed with that daft idea anyway.   
 

So is the root cause a potential salary akin to what he is really worth?   Over inflated wages are killing the game.

12 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Why are they? We would have to apply to join a league and whilst a higher league may accept our application we arent entitled to be at any level of the pyramid. Burys phoenix club Bury AFC wete accepted at tier 10, but the actual Bury fc club that still exists applied at a higher level but were rejected as the league was slready oversubscribed and the league didnt want a team in the division below to miss out on a promotion spot.

You would have to apply and see what happens.

And there is no point comparing a phoenix club to the current iteration of Derby County. The phoenix would probably still have a good following for that level, but myself and many others would not be interested in a phoenix. It wont have anywhere near the support it enjoys now.

You may be right.  See what happens in the next couple of months.  Your points sort of validate my point.  You are too big a club to even talk about fans starting another one. 

I'm confident this will not happen but:   Assuming your suggestion comes to fruition, how are the grounds going to cope with the away support?   Derby to play the likes o Ilkeston or Buxton? 

33 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Bury afc started at level 9 or 10 didnt they? They were a brand new phoenix club though.

The actual Bury fc who own the name, etc still havent started playing again as far as i am aware.

If we have to phoenix we will be starting right at the bottom of the league pyramid

No chance of that happening... Says me.  A club as big as Derby is more likely to start in the National League at worst.  This is unlikely to happen anyway,  supposing it does? The supporter base would likely decline.  Other supporters started Phoenix clubs 'Just in case' but the egos of the owners usually take over.  Coventry United is one such club.  They started way down the non-league structure and were promoted several times in their first 5 years.  Were it not for Covid they would have gone up another tier as well.  The original owners have now left.  So this talk of a Phoenix club is positive but also a distraction at the same time.  In Coventry's case the decision to start a Phoenix Club was a red herring because the Club did not resemble Coventry City.    I still think Derby will survive.  It's getting tougher by the day but something will happen. 

This club was formed with part-timers, no established structure and attendances of about 1000 at the start....

13–14  Midland Combination Div. Two2nd of 16     Promoted as runners-up

2014–15 Midland League Div. Two  1st of 16      Promoted as champions
 

2015–16 Midland League Div. One     Promoted as champions

2016–17 Midland League Premier Div.   8th of 22
 

2017–18 Midland League Premier Div.    8th of 22
 

2018–19 Midland League Premier Div. 8th of 20
 

2019–20 Midland League Premier Div.   1st of 20 (at time of cancellation)#
 

2020–21 Midland League Premier 9th of 19 
 

15 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

There is another way to look at their statement (having the interests of the club at heart yeah right) they don't want to be the organisation that sees the club removed from the league but if Quantuma liquidate us then the EFL can say they tried everything possible to save the club.

You make a good point.  Either way the club needs to come out of this mess.

11 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Having now  read the EFLs statement which comes across as concern as to Derbys ability to fulfil next seasons fixtures I think the EFL is justified in voicing their concern.
 

I think we all share the EFLs concern.?

As long as the EFL comment only on manner in which the Clubs current position interacts with the EFLs rules, that’s fine, if the EFL were to try and influence the Administration decision or process then, in my opinion, they would be over stepping the line.

I am always weary when we come across “Reporters” post as they tend to put a dramatic slant on everything, good or bad.

I agree,  some may see this as the death knell for the club.  However, I think this is the best thing that could happen at this critical point.  They do not seem to have much confidence in the matter being resolved as it is. 

The administrator has to be neutral but those affected can make representations to them and therefore establish whether a said bidder is viable.  With someone readily available to negotiate on behalf of the FA it is far better for all parties.    I'm not aware of any other club that has had this provision.

It may be last chance saloon for some, but I think this is positive news.

49 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

If you can't see the link between the Premier League and the inflated costs of the EFL there is no point in this discussion. We will simply have to agree to disagree.

If we had beaten Villa, would Mel have put too much in? We are not in this mess because of how much Mel put in - we are in this mess because it didn't work and he decided to bail out.

Sustainability is the difference between promotion and not. 

Running at break even and remaining in the Championship for a sustained period has never been achieved. Maybe all owners of Championship clubs are just idiots? Maybe it's a run of bad luck. IMO it's more likely to be a structural weakness in the fiscal realties of the division.

The whole thing has been led by the owner being too speculative.  He had the control, would have surely been a god if he'd have taken The Rams up.  In reality the fans have no say as to whether clubs are in the Prem or any other league for that matter.  It happened at Coventry City.  Terrible experience for the fans on the way down, countered by some of the days out on the way back up.  Being a CCFC supporter and Rams follower, I know what I would prefer. The Premier league may be one of the top leagues in the world but is it worth losing your club for?  Any club for that matter.

6 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I went into a shop yesterday I purchased a loaf of bread for my mum and dad £1.25 and I asked for a bag 20p ( I was picking up some stuff elsewhere) I was asked for the correct amount £1.45 so I handed over a £2 coin and the server said here is your £1.75 change.

I think that just about sums up what’s happening with Derby County 

Aldi or Lidl?

10 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

We are not through people still want us.

https://t.co/wm9QkNVkIQ

(1) Sky Sports News on Twitter: "Sky Sports News has been told that two of the concrete offers to buy Derby County are “not easily resurrectable”. If Chris Kirchner’s deal to buy the club falls through, there is real danger the club could be liquidated. https://t.co/wm9QkNVkIQ" / Twitter

(1) Elias on Twitter: "EXCL: Slync,io, the company for which Chris Kirchner is CEO, is behind on payroll payments to at least several of its employees. The company also owes NHL franchise Dallas Stars around $800k in sponsorship money That and much more in the piece ⬇️ #DCFC https://t.co/RnE17il82F" / Twitter

9 minutes ago, Woodypecker said:

There will be radio silence after 5.00 pm, with the standard "We are still waiting for news"  update.

Then, a tedious P M I (Perfunctory Musical Interlude) will kick in, before the update is repeated and Dan Roan's 'interview' is replayed as the last comment from CK. 

It's over 4 months since many thousands of fans showed solidarity on the march to PPS.

If the club goes under, we should replicate that with a march on EFL HQ, joint architects of the DCFC demise.

Just a thought,  what role does the administrator play?  It is a legal issue.  Nothing to do with EFL.  The points deductions are the only reason for marching. Who placed the club into administration?  The administrator has to get the best deal for creditors regardless of all other matters (If creditors are to come out of this with any of their money back).  I dare say that there are a few amongst them that think they deserve just as much as football creditors as well.

5 hours ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

How did Coventry get past that rule, they didn’t have a ground because of their unscrupulous owners. Subsequently they were vagabonds for several season and therefore can’t have had a “10 year agreement”. 
Or is this another rule theyve “made up” in the last few weeks/ months. 

I can help on this one. City fan born Derby due to home move when I was v young.  But still had this thing about Derby over the years.

It is going to be a rough ride if fans have to move away from the city.   The fans never forget.  And some followed the team to sixfields and st andrews. Crowds of 1800 turned up for some games.   etc etc etc.  Murderous.

The wiki account if broadly correct.    At the moment our illustrious owners are one season in to a 10 year agreement to play at The Coventry Building Society Arena (Formerly Ricoh Arena).  The owners say that they want to build a new stadium 8 miles away on Warwick University Campus...This should never happen please!

Anyway i've posted on here before that many fans will not travel out of principle.

The crowds at Sixfields were abysmal until the last couple of months.  Then they rose a bit, boosted by promotion chasing away supporters.   Sixfields was a no go for me.

On 3 May 2013, Coventry City put a contingency plan in place to play elsewhere for the 2013–14 season. It was argued by the club that this was due to ACL (Arena Coventry Limited), which managed the stadium, being unwilling to negotiate with the club to agree to a new lease. However, that led to the local newspaper, the Coventry Telegraph, starting a petition to stop Coventry City from playing outside of Coventry. It was sent to all 72 clubs in the Football League and Football League chairman Greg Clarke. In May 2013, managing director Tim Fisher set a plan of building a new stadium within the city over the next three years, and ground-sharing whilst the new ground was being built.[34] In June 2013, ACL made an offer that Coventry City F.C. could play at the Ricoh Arena rent free while the club was in administration.[35]

It was believed that Coventry City might ground-share with Walsall at the Bescot Stadium or attempt to stay at the Ricoh Arena,[36] following the appointment of new owners.[37] However, by July 2013, the Walsall rumours were denied and the club ground-shared at Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium – a venue that had less than a quarter the capacity of the Ricoh Arena, and involved a round-trip of 70 miles (110 km). That arrangement was due to continue until at least 2016.[38][39] Plans for the club to play its home matches outside of the city were met with strong opposition, and led to protests by Coventry fans.[40] Member of parliament for Coventry South, Jim Cunningham, described the move as "a disgrace".[41

On 21 August 2014 it was announced that an agreement had been reached allowing the club to return to the Ricoh Arena for the next two years with the option of another two years.[42] Coventry City's first home game back at the Ricoh Arena was played against Gillingham on 5 September 2014. Steve Waggott, who led the negotiations for the club, said: "We are delighted to get this deal done and I am sure every supporter of Coventry City will be thrilled with the news."[11] City won their first match back at the Ricoh Arena 1–0 with Frank Nouble scoring the only goal of the match in front of 27,306 supporters.

The return followed a social media campaign entitled #bringCityhome by the Coventry Telegraph[43] and a protest march by the Sky Blue Trust supporters' group.[44] The campaign drew praise from national media and figures within the football world. It was short-listed at the 2014 British Press Awards in the "Campaign of the Year" category.[45]

Because the tenancy agreement with Wasps was to expire in August 2018, it was reported in November 2015 that there would be a relocation to another site within the city.[46] However it was later confirmed that Coventry City would remain at the Ricoh Arena for another year.[47]

In May 2016 the Coventry Telegraph broke the news that the club had drawn up plans with Coventry Rugby Club for a ground-share arrangement at a redeveloped Butts Park Arena.[48] That was eventually denied by Rugby Club chairman Jon Sharp, who said there could be no deal with the football club while it was still owned by SISU.[49]

St Andrew's[edit]

On 7 June 2019 it was reported that talks between SISU and Wasps had again broken down meaning that Coventry would have to play their 2019–20 home matches at Birmingham City's St Andrew's ground.[50]

The club had the option to spend a further two seasons away from Coventry[51] and remained at St Andrew's for the 2020–21 season.[52] The club returned to the Ricoh Arena in August 2021, ending the ground-share agreement between Coventry and Birmingham.

5 hours ago, keithred said:

We cannot allow the take over of our club being stymied by the problem caused by the fact that Mel Morris still owns Pride Park.

What we need is a fans' buy out of the ground.   I suggest the following:

If enough fans are prepared to invest £1,000 each, I reckon we can easily reach an amount for the stadium which Mel will accept.  Those investors become shareholders of the ground.  A management committee is appointed with liaison with the new club board.  A regular lease is agreed and set up, giving the investors a return on their investment.   The terms of the lease give the club takes full responsibility for maintaining the stadium, including policing on match days, etc.

Can anyone seea problem with this scenario?  We need to get this moving asap.

Great Idea given that it could push a deal through.

1 Whether we like it or not the club owners need a share in the club.  50/50 seems right. 

2 The stadium may not be worth the money paid.   The preferred bidder clearly has an idea of what it is worth and may have to raise it under conditions of sale.

3  Not forgetting that the big boys take all the risk and rewards.  Any investor would do so on the basis of all investments.  If you can't afford to lose it the don't invest.

 

1 hour ago, LazloW said:

So what? Rooney isn’t the only person in the world who could manage Derby. If he goes, he goes. Just like dozens of other good, bad or indifferent managers have. 

Couldn’t really care less who the owner is now, provided we get one and can start next season and have enough players to put a team out.

One of the best moves in recent years was Lampard's to Chelsea, then Everton.  I don't particularly warm to either but Rooney is proving that he has the bottle to hang around.   I guess people chase names and Rooney will take advantage of that while it lasts.  He'll probably manage England one day.  Just because of his name.

21 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

How do you know kircher not got the money you dont he got fingers in several things.

And his backers will also have money.

There's a fair chance he only needs a proportion of the money anyway.  I'd be surprised if he spends much on player contracts/ transfers because he'll come in needing to see how the business works.  I'm thinking its ok paying someone 30k plus a week to players if the income is there.  Unlike the dream boy Mel.

Fans revenue 

TV revenue  a damn sight less than this season.

Player value....Erm  Is it 5 contracted players on ridiculous salaries in L1

Sponsorship

A.O.B.  Such as ' Normal' income from business operations. such as food and beverages/ matchday revenue.

Out 

Wages

Matchday costs

Ground maintenance and HR expenses 

Loan repayments/ ground rental?

Ahem   Normal losses associated with running a club (Tax deductable etc)/ amortization

On 09/04/2022 at 09:38, Sparkle said:

Who stays - anyone who wants to springs to mind - we are short everywhere 

who’s likely to move on - probably Belick especially if he has a good World Cup but that pushing it late. Possibly Knight due to his international pedigree.

if I was the likes of Sibley I would be staying to establish myself in the league one team ( assuming that’s where we will be) and that goes for most of the youngsters.

Basically it will be a case of do you want more money - then off you go - or - do you want to play football - here’s your chance which goes for the youngsters and the very experienced professionals. Whilst playing in front of supporters who support the team in high numbers.

My optimistic interests sits with who Rooney can bring in as a centre forward because we need three of them - loans or free transfers probably as this will dictate our approach to games. 

League One is a strange place nowadays.  Very physical and difficult to get out of.  Certainly with points deducted, decimated squad and FFP restrictions.  It could be a rough few years.   TBH it’s a miracle that the Club has survived given the horrendous state of the finances.  I know that there will be more twists and turns along the way but look at ITFC, WIGAN,BOLTON,SUNDERLAND,CHARLTON AND PORTSMOUTH.  All biggish names in a small time League.   It’s is still crazy that these teams are even there.   Include Coventry who managed to fall down to L2 over a few seasons then back up to the Championship.  Every one of those clubs has a story to tell.  

16 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

Well quite.. We have several times seen statements from the EFL about wanting to preserve the long term future of the club while at the same time threatening to apply sanctions that fundamentally undermine the value of the club to any potential saviour.

I genuinely believe that the EFL don't wish us to cease to exist but I just don't think that our situation was what they had in mind when these rules were written up. We have no stadium and an utterly threadbare squad on short contracts due to a seemingly endless embargo and then administration on top. There is just very little residual value, that's the fact of it.

They can brandish their rulebook and stamp their feet all they like and demand that certain creditors are paid but if a series of incoming owners say that the club is worth nowhere near enough to do that then they can just apply their rules and be damned and send us under or they can look at the discretionary element and say OK, well lets be pragmatic here and find a way through this and perhaps afterwards we can sit down and review the rules we've made as to whether they work in all situations. This isn't about trying to duck debt to gain unfair advantage, it's about trying to survive. Even if we achieve that, the DCFC entity is in a seriously distressed state in need of an extensive rebuild on and off the pitch. Regardless of what some delusional fans of other teams think, we have absolutely not got away with anything, far from it, we've taken an absolute mauling that could take years to turn around even with new owners prepared to invest. Don't make this any harder than it already is.

Leicester City emerged out of admin.  Look at them.. Ahem.  Now there’s a story.