RAM1966

2 hours ago, jono said:

All true but we need to recognise he doesn’t really hold the keys completely  because of the apparent 20 million in security lodged against it. 

To make any deal viable he needs to throw in the stadium.  Mel do the right thing, you've destroyed the club,at least save it from extinction 

18 hours ago, Abu Derby said:

Only another 48 to wait now.  

This time it’s measured in days since that is the number left until the final game of this season. 
Then the pb will be announced “shortly” after that. 

I think once our relegation is confirmed, we will have a PB announced.  Nothing till then as the Admin know it increases the value of the club substantially if by some miracle stay up.....

10 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We were told Mel Morris was a shrewd businessman too….

Lets have a look at Mels track record:

1.  Takes a sustainable football club thats just failed in the play-offs, to a complete basket case that would be wound up as insolvent in any other business...

2.  Bad managerial appointments, sacks them costing £10Ms.

3.  Sacks Rush and ends up settling out of court.

4.  Sacks Keogh loses in court.

5.  Takes on the EFL, while I have some sympathy, he handled it all wrong he should of sued EFL for deliberately dragging thier heels.

6.  Should of dealt with Gibson far sooner.

7.  Allowed a wage bill of 151% of total income, never going to be sustainable.

8.  Paid to much in transfer fees and waged for average players.  

9.  Didn't keep an eye on the balance sheet and cut costs far too late.

Well shrewd.... ?

14 hours ago, rsmini said:

 

If that's true, that MSD isn't the real creditor, it looks like Mel is after one final pay day.  ? 

18 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Maybe. But I don't think what division we are in makes that much difference to the price, especially as we have been odds on for relegation all season. GoC has just estimated we might "only " need £37 million to avoid a points penalty so it would be shame for buyers to bring self inflicted pain by only offering £35m and getting another massive points deduction just for want of £2m. But we will see.   

Yes it does, investors will take on more debt for a Championship Club, the revenue streams are much higher for starters....

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

Men at Mel's level do not operate like us mere plebs. I remember reading some time ago that the Chairman of a major company was on the Board of 50+ other companies and advisor to others. They make quick decisions based on very high level (summarised) information and instinct, because they have no time for detail. It is a trait of many people who get to the top. 

I had to do Board level briefs occasionally and the rule was 5 or 6 bullet points no more. May be 5 minutes to present it!

I imagine MM operates like this and we really should be also decrying the people who were feeding him the data.

Nice try but when you've 'allegedly spunked 40% of your own wealth you should have a better handle on it.

Who employed his advisors?  Mel, his fault 100% that we are where we are...

3 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

I thought that fate rested with the other 71 clubs in the EFL.

100% correct, the EFL could sell this 2 ways though before they put it to the vote...  Everything negative, Derby been clever cheating the system deserve to be punished et al.

They could also say, Derby County have been found in breach of FFP rules, which have since been clarified with a rule change to ensure thier is a level playing field. 

Notwithstanding this, the previous owner amassed huge debts, which has led to a justified transfer embargo to address the balance.

This has to Derby Counties detriment made their financal situation worse by not being able to resign existing players and led to talented youth players being sold to balance the books.

The EFL stands by its decisions as we need to enusure there is integrity in fair competition and the sustainability of football clubs in the future. 

The fans of Derby County have had no control of a reckless owner, the clubs current situation is sad for all involved in the EFL, its members and fans to see.  We therefore strongly recommend that Starting life in Division 2 be an appropriate place.  Non league football clubs would simply not be able to host Derby's away fans, nor would they cope with their soending budget.

Considering all of the facts, the EFL is here to preserve the longevity of football clubs and strongly supports Derby County being admitted to Lg2 and asks all of the EFL members to support this decision....

3 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

If we go bust there is no guarantee that a phoenix club will be allowed to remain in the league at any level,it might be a tier or Two below league 2.

That's appreciated I think the EFL will be under severe pressure to keep us in the league though....

This is my opinion!

Going back to the sale, I think only one creditor is being awkward that the one who owns the stadium.

I'm sumising this based on unsecured creditors being about £6m, that only £1.5m @ 25%.....  Surely no buyer is going to take -15pts to save that and risk further relegation?

HMRC also appear to be accommodating from whats been said.

However to make the whole club saleable, somone needs to be realisic and realise that the club isnt worth taking on in Lg1 with £60m in debts.  Particularly with only 1/2 a first team squad.

Mel needs to get real and realise that he is going to have to take a hit on the stadium sale.  Its reported he wants at least enough to clear his debt to MSD believed to be around £25m, its not going to happen.

I cannot see anything else holding up this process and once again his poor decision making is going to cost him deatly.  Why?  I think Appleby is shrewd and will not offer above the odds, but, will want the stadium as part of the deal.  However Ashley will happily let us go bust (could be the best option right now) then buy the Stadium at a cut price offer and start at the bottom of league 2. 

If/Once we are liquidated, there  would be no way on earth that Mel is going to get anything close to £25m for a stadium with no team to play in it.  I think the council would also refuse any planning applications for change of use or demolition.

So theres a high stakes poker game being played out, Mels already all in on money borrowed against his MSD credit card, sweating in the hope that either Ashley or Appleby will call and give him the money he wants to walk away debt free.  If they fold he could be left with a hugh debt at high interest rates on a white elephant he cant actually fund.

Mel wake up and smell the coffee, you need to put your hand in your pockets one ladt time.....

14 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

If you're going to forget all the play-off matches, going to Wembley, breaking the transfer record to bring in Vydra, some wonderful loans and players singed, a youth system bearing fruit and sacking managers because so many fans here said so. Then forget those times, his fortune thrown at this club to chase that dream. But be happy with any new owner and any lack of ambition that may likely follow.

The club is weeks away from possible extintion and your defending the man who has been reckless?

We've paid too much for players, Mel should of given the managers the brief, a mixture of experience while blooding the youth talent.

Tell me, would you wife be annoyed if your continually splashed out on stuff you couldn't really afford, which ultimately led to you losing your home?  I suspect she would and it could mean a marriage break up, akin to liquidation when you think about it!

7 minutes ago, S8TY said:

We enjoyed the signings because we stupidly and wrongly thought that Morris and DCFC could afford these signings....but if we knew it was putting our club in jeopardy of course we would'nt...

what?? are we supposed to not like every signing because we think the controller/owner/man in charge of our football club is gambling with our future???? No we/ I thought Morris is a business man knows how to run a business so you trust him......only to over spend....not pay the tax man and then walk away....please wake up and smell the coffee mate....its a ludicrous statement to make saying did we like the signings?? of course we did....what we did not know was we had someone slowly sentencing our club to all of this misery.....He was and is responsible for this and he should be giving the stadium back as he's walked away from debt he orchestrated!! fact?

The main problem was the signings, too many average players on big wages, when we realised they were not goid enough, we had trouble moving tgem on, becausw nobody would pay thier rediculous wage demands.

How much was wasted sacking managers, Rusk and Keogh et al.  Only one person to blame and he's walked away.

Liquidation us inevitable and hopefully allow us to start again at the bottom of League 2 after ashley buys the stadium...

5 minutes ago, ramboy63 said:

The first points you make are indeed correct the debt is the debt whichever league we end up in

However potential buyers are not going to stump up the same price for a team in a league lower,revenue is greatly reduced in TV and match day earnings,our crowds will fall to around 18-20K only likely to rise if we do get anywhere close to the top and pushing for promotion,away support will be low also apart from a few bigger clubs

If we had clarity which division we were going to play in next season i think a price and deal would of been made by now,but we are hanging on by a thread to the Championship and if we do survive the price will be higher

Finally, well explained, if we look like staying up the value of the club increases by around 50%.

Lets not forget Southampton was sold with £100M worth of debt taken on by the new owners who still paid £100m for the club...

33 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Isn’t the only requirement for exiting administration an agreement from the creditors (or 75% of them by value) to a CVA. However, the EFL can deduct a further 15 points or kick us out the league if the CVA doesn’t meet their requirements or they don’t like the business plan? I can’t remember the rules on FFP/salary cap in L2 but I seem to recall he could inject as much money as he wanted and we wouldn’t fall foul of and rules but the EFL may not approve such a business plan.

For what reason other to punish us further, the stranglehold on our club has been appalling, between Gibson and tge EFL we've been hamstrung, even stopping Mel from selling..... 

Further punishments would have to be seen as beyond extreme and Ashley would have no quarms in Sueing the EFL....

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Surely the preferred bidder is the one that puts the best bid in? If we have 3 bids on the table then the best will be the preferred bidder.

The best bid for who the creditors collectively or a the person who appointed them?   Remember this is all done under NDA agreements, so who is going to see whats actually the best overall agreement is for ALL the creditors.

Im sorry, but, I really do not trust yhe person that got us into this mess.  He's hidden stuff from the fans, failed to pay taxes, he's treated the fans.  Acted appallingly feeding the select few bullshite under an NDA scenario.

For me he no longer cares one jot or he would have sorted Boro long before he did and gifted the stadium to make the deal possible.

31 minutes ago, davenportram said:

I thought that any exit out of admin includes agreeing to an EFL approved business plan that requires approval of signings (like in the summer and Reading have) so to say no FFP restrictions isn’t 100% accurate

If we end up a pheonix club there is no exiting Admin, uts a fresh club, which means no business plan....  Unless of course tgat an EFL trade off to start at tge bottom of Lg2.

As sad as it is, its the only way I can see out of this complete mess.

To think Ive had 2 one month bans for calling out a certain person and his actions on this website ? 

22 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

For the Administrators to have rejected the £30m bid from the Binnie brothers suggests there is better deals with the remaining bidders. If there is'nt, they are taken a big gamble with one bidder gone and possibly only 2 left. Hope these idiots are not being advised by Mel, who gambled with the club too many times.

TBH, the Administrators were appointed by Mel, they've had several offers, my take on this is until the right offer comes in aka, a deal that includes an acceptable price for the stadium, there will be no preferred bidder.

Its also a distinct possibility that, this is all smoke and mirrors, there is on intention at all to have a preferred bidder, let us go bust.

Why?  Ashley may well be happy to see us start at the bottom of Lg 2 after buying the stadium for £30-35M.  He gets a club without debts, sanctions or debt or dirt digging on the accounts.  He can invest bigtime with no FFP constraints, back in Championship within 2 seasons....

Likeliest ourcome the more I think about it....  If we stay up, this could change though!

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

It all sounds pretty gloomy, I have to say.

Is there a mechanism where the stadium owning company could also be forced into administration, if so would that help the process?

No and No, even if that could happen its two seperate entities so it would do no good.  Mel needs to dig deep one last time to ensure the survival of the club, if not, I can see Ashley picking it up on the cheap when Mel finds out DCC refuses to allow change of use and its a big white elephant in the centre of PP.....

3 minutes ago, Rampant said:

No. Feel free to sing his praises if you wish. I think he's escaping his mess lightly.

I agree, there must be a new LAW, passed where community assets can not be treated like some rich kids train set.

Before someone starts shouting he lost £200m, thats yet to be proved as he's not written off the soft loans yet, nor has he sold the stadium.

Only one person to blame for this Im afraid, I know he didn't intentionly leave us in the state we are in.  However he's left us in a right mess for the following reasons:

Bought too many overvalued players.

Wages were far to high for signing ge made, making it difficult to move underperformers on.

At one point we were soending 151% of total on players salaries, its just reckless.

Made some awfil managerial apponts and sacked too many of them.

Didn't listen to his advisors and simply drove the club at speed off a cliff.

Great job Mel!

13 hours ago, AutoWindscreens said:

We are odds-on to down, yes, but 1/8 understates our chances of staying up! 

The best price is 2/7 which gives us a 22% chance (i.e. double the chance of 1/8).

Of course, even that understates our chances of staying up. Not by much, mind you.

My point is, we have less than a 50/50 chance of dtaying up.  Although, Im beginning to think 5 wins and 39 points may just be enough.....   

8 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

I don't think it's the administrators who are stalling,i think the bidders are expecting the administrators selling the club now as a league 1 club and have put in derisory offers to match which doesn't go anywhere near enough to settle the bills, that wouldn't be acceptable to the administrators who have managed to arrange funds to see the season out. If we go down i can see the potential bidders walking away especially Ashley who won't get the television coverage a championship club gets.

We are still odds on to go dow 1/8, we also have a depleted squad.  All you are buying is a handful of players and the golden share.  Bottom of Lg2 phoenix club may well appeal, no -15pts lots of money to then invesr getting us back to the championship.....

37 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Ashley’s representative implied they were looking to sort the takeover quickly. 

He is, because he's looking to pay a Lg1 price, hoping to gain a Championship club....

Admins have 3 bids, Ashley, Binnies & Appleby, so if one walks away due to the delays, they will still sell...

I could be wrong, but, I very much doubt you are going to see a PB until at least the middle of April, unless we start faltering badly....

25 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Who told you that ?

Club is worth a lot more in the Championship, at the moment the potential buyers have based their buds on a Lg1 team

The Admin have enough money now till the end of the season, theres still a chance we may survive, so they are going to wait until the know whether they are selling a Championship or Lg1 club......

The added bonus of course is Admin are racking up their bill tooooo!

On 05/03/2022 at 16:57, B4ev6is said:

Now would be perfect time to announce PB bidder now.

B4,

You wont see a PB until which division we are in next season is settled.....

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

Can anybody point me to where I can download the insolvency statement with the full list of creditors, please?

Try companies house website....  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00049139/filing-history

9 hours ago, winktheram said:

I 'heard' it's not Ashley screwing down a deal, his bid is in. The new spanner in the works was a last minute bid by Dell (msd) l. Would make sense as they are the major creditor with money already in he club and the stadium. 

Id be very surprised if this were true, MSD have always been clear that they loan money to FCs with no wish yo buy a club.

That said though they are owed about £25m, so it may be a route they consider, to protect their initial investment.  I would expect it to be a very tightly run ship similar to Mr Applebys modus operandi.....

Hope Aahley gets it, he won't piss about, PL will be achieved in quick order.....