Leeds Ram Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I have no time for islam. I was fuming when my kids told me they learn about muslims in R.E but rarely learn about christianity. I know i may sound old fashioned but if they dont like it in this country they can go to where islam practices are the norm. Dangerous R.E should teach about all faiths so children can make their mind up. The only thing that annoys me is the license some religions receive and when lies are told about scientific facts and then no-one does anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorksopRam Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 You didn't it was just below my post and I sometimes never know if it is below mine if someone is responding if it isn't made clear 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> my bad 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Nah, I know you're into this stuff anyway. Never shut up about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 please quote the opinion polls. I have never seen an opinion poll which had a credible sample state this. What does democracy mean, I presume as a philosophy scholar you'd know its greek derivation; if you could enlighten me as to how this ties in with islamic culture past, present or future then feel free. Its worth pointing out that sharia actually means "The way (of life)", not sure whether muslims have need for it to be formally recognised in parliament or not and judging by the absymal turnout of young muslims in both polls and elections its not high on the agenda, they simply live their life by it. If I was PM, amongst other things I'd do is place a formal ban on all sharia law courts in the U.K and put something in our constitution preventing any debate whether it be in 10 years time or a 1000 years time regarding its possible implementation formally alongside English law. From a quick googling of polls, the first I see suggests at least 40% of muslims want it implemented (seems reasonable to me) with a further number in the "undecided" bracket. Disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 What does democracy mean, I presume as a philosophy scholar you'd know its greek derivation; if you could enlighten me as to how this ties in with islamic culture past, present or future then feel free. Its worth pointing out that sharia actually means "The way (of life)", not sure whether muslims have need for it to be formally recognised in parliament or not and judging by the absymal turnout of young muslims in both polls and elections its not high on the agenda, they simply live their life by it. If I was PM, amongst other things I'd do is place a formal ban on all sharia law courts in the U.K and put something in our constitution preventing any debate whether it be in 10 years time or a 1000 years time regarding its possible implementation formally alongside English law. From a quick googling of polls, the first I see suggests at least 40% of muslims want it implemented (seems reasonable to me) with a further number in the "undecided" bracket. Disgusting. Well I was simply saying Billy that I haven't seen a opinion poll with a credible sample state that the majority of the muslims wants sharia in this country. Now aspects of sharia differ with different muslims as far as I am aware. I am not an islamic scholar so therefore I would struggle to and make a poor attempt at explaining an issue which even muslims have various opinions on. Democracy yes has its routes imbedded within Greece, however that wasn't democracy as we know it today. Democracy as we know it today is relatively new even to this country. The muslim portion of the country is tiny, 3% in the last census so even if the majority want sharia ( i thought it meant islamic law not way of life but meh) I doubt they would accomplish this aim. The idea to put something in law to stop sharia would be worthless, as we have an uncodified constitution the law could be overturned anyway. When it comes to our constitution nothing is safe or secure definitively unlike in America. I disagree with certain parts of sharia certainly, and I disagree with peoples views on if it's good or not for the country. I agree with you about the sharia court bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The EDL leader? Intelligent? Really? The Britain - or, should I say, England that the EDL seems every bit as dumb as full Sharia Law to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Well I was simply saying Billy that I haven't seen a opinion poll with a credible sample state that the majority of the muslims wants sharia in this country. Now aspects of sharia differ with different muslims as far as I am aware. I am not an islamic scholar so therefore I would struggle to and make a poor attempt at explaining an issue which even muslims have various opinions on. Democracy yes has its routes imbedded within Greece, however that wasn't democracy as we know it today. Democracy as we know it today is relatively new even to this country. The muslim portion of the country is tiny, 3% in the last census so even if the majority want sharia ( i thought it meant islamic law not way of life but meh) I doubt they would accomplish this aim. The idea to put something in law to stop sharia would be worthless, as we have an uncodified constitution the law could be overturned anyway. When it comes to our constitution nothing is safe or secure definitively unlike in America. I disagree with certain parts of sharia certainly, and I disagree with peoples views on if it's good or not for the country. I agree with you about the sharia court bit though. I was thinking of its Greek translation "rule by the people" and not rule by the law of god. There is no room for any acknowledgement of it anywhere is my point. British law should be absolute and whilst these sharia law courts at present have no jurisdiction at national level they are serving local community sentances. I've not seen much/any opposition to this by government. I see it as an attempt to undermine our current judicial process with a dual legal system and consequently they should be declared illegal. I know that the muslim demograph is small but I'd prefer it if the portion within those ranks that wanted sharia kindly left to occupy a country that can facilitate their needs. I see it as two fingers up to the emancipation of women in this country which was so hard-fought, sharia has no place here! Interesting note: The Americans have a habit of ratifying the constitution at will and did so several times during the last century in particular to bring about reform in their banking system. "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Jefferson. Erm...most Americans don't even know the federal reserve is a private institution that charges interest to the American taxpayer for congress spending! I know of a couple of other examples as well but I just thought that is the most apt considering the times. With regard to our own constitution, we have statutes that are put in place due to the fact our constitution is uncodified as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Totally agree with SB. There should be no place in a civilised country for religious based laws. Sharia law should be made illegal to practice in the UK, for the life of me I can't understand why it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I thought the older woman was absolutely brilliant. She made her feelings very clear and i agree with most of her points. Along the lines of: The colour of your skin is irrelevant. If you're a d*ckhead, you're a d*ckhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This sums it up for me [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5VDbu-HLMs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5VDbu-HLMs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I was thinking of its Greek translation "rule by the people" and not rule by the law of god. There is no room for any acknowledgement of it anywhere is my point. British law should be absolute and whilst these sharia law courts at present have no jurisdiction at national level they are serving local community sentances. I've not seen much/any opposition to this by government. I see it as an attempt to undermine our current judicial process with a dual legal system and consequently they should be declared illegal. I know that the muslim demograph is small but I'd prefer it if the portion within those ranks that wanted sharia kindly left to occupy a country that can facilitate their needs. I see it as two fingers up to the emancipation of women in this country which was so hard-fought, sharia has no place here! Interesting note: The Americans have a habit of ratifying the constitution at will and did so several times during the last century in particular to bring about reform in their banking system. "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Jefferson. Erm...most Americans don't even know the federal reserve is a private institution that charges interest to the American taxpayer for congress spending! I know of a couple of other examples as well but I just thought that is the most apt considering the times. With regard to our own constitution, we have statutes that are put in place due to the fact our constitution is uncodified as you say. You seem to be mis representing my position silly, I am not in favour of sharia law, I believe it to be abominable in every sense. The American constitution while it can be interpreted differently and amendments can be added, it is extremely difficult to accomplish. Over 1,000 ammendments have been attempted and less than 40 have been approved. The judicary have a legitimate check on the legislature and the executive as well. You need a 3/4 majority in both houses but I am sure you know this. Yes that is correct but I believe it was Socrates (might be correct just off the top of my memory) who was put on trial and killed for failing to acknowledge and introducing new deities. So while the Greek philosophers may have wanted man to create his own destiny, Greek society wasn't all there. I don't believe in any religious law, I believe it to be a danger to civilised society and an insult and degredation to humanity. How one would outlaw Sharia I am not so sure, I suppose it could be put in statute though in honesty I'm not entirely sure how that would work. My whole point was that I have yet to see a study with a credible sample which testifies the fact that many muslims of a small minority want this and the sad fact is some will always want this. Believe me I don't want this, under sharia I would be in very serious trouble. I would be in favour of your argument of expunging these courts, there should be courts only representing British law. So on many points I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorksopRam Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I thought the older woman was absolutely brilliant. She made her feelings very clear and i agree with most of her points. Along the lines of: The colour of your skin is irrelevant. If you're a d*ckhead, you're a d*ckhead Are you thinking of the Make Bradford British programme mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorksopRam Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i haven't watched the program but in my opinion it seems that in general social unrest comes down to one thing.. poverty. And when in poverty it makes sense to split into groups based on one thing or another, whether it be religion, colour, football team, post-codes in order to have some sort of identity and community to help each other out wherever you can. Thing is when one group appears to be getting a better deal than the others you're going to get conflict. The better off people in this country don't divide along racial lines so much due to not seeing others as much as a threat. You are lying if you'd say you feel much safer walking through a white ghetto than an asian one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i haven't watched the program but in my opinion it seems that in general social unrest comes down to one thing.. poverty. And when in poverty it makes sense to split into groups based on one thing or another, whether it be religion, colour, football team, post-codes in order to have some sort of identity and community to help each other out wherever you can. Thing is when one group appears to be getting a better deal than the others you're going to get conflict. The better off people in this country don't divide along racial lines so much due to not seeing others as much as a threat. You are lying if you'd say you feel much safer walking through a white ghetto than an asian one. Was just about to post something similar. To true about the 'getting a better deal than the other' part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 i haven't watched the program but in my opinion it seems that in general social unrest comes down to one thing.. poverty. And when in poverty it makes sense to split into groups based on one thing or another, whether it be religion, colour, football team, post-codes in order to have some sort of identity and community to help each other out wherever you can. Thing is when one group appears to be getting a better deal than the others you're going to get conflict. The better off people in this country don't divide along racial lines so much due to not seeing others as much as a threat. You are lying if you'd say you feel much safer walking through a white ghetto than an asian one. Yes. Yes I am. I was wondering why I never saw the edl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The better off people in this country don't divide along racial lines so much due to not seeing others as much as a threat. You are lying if you'd say you feel much safer walking through a white ghetto than an asian one. People are tribal, if you look like them you're often alright. I wouldn't fancy walking round some areas of Notts in a Derby shirt, whereas if I had a Notts shirt on I'm blatantly less likely to be targeted. Its pretty basic this one, I don't see how anyone could contest the point but you have, fair enough. Incroyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You seem to be mis representing my position silly, I am not in favour of sharia law, I believe it to be abominable in every sense. The American constitution while it can be interpreted differently and amendments can be added, it is extremely difficult to accomplish. Over 1,000 ammendments have been attempted and less than 40 have been approved. The judicary have a legitimate check on the legislature and the executive as well. You need a 3/4 majority in both houses but I am sure you know this. Yes that is correct but I believe it was Socrates (might be correct just off the top of my memory) who was put on trial and killed for failing to acknowledge and introducing new deities. So while the Greek philosophers may have wanted man to create his own destiny, Greek society wasn't all there. I don't believe in any religious law, I believe it to be a danger to civilised society and an insult and degredation to humanity. How one would outlaw Sharia I am not so sure, I suppose it could be put in statute though in honesty I'm not entirely sure how that would work. My whole point was that I have yet to see a study with a credible sample which testifies the fact that many muslims of a small minority want this and the sad fact is some will always want this. Believe me I don't want this, under sharia I would be in very serious trouble. I would be in favour of your argument of expunging these courts, there should be courts only representing British law. So on many points I agree with you. Never thought you were really disagreeing, just leveraging some of my views from quoting yourself! Had no idea 1000 amendments have been attempted, just making the point that their consitution has been undermined, can be undermined and will be undermined. Most Americans in my experience think its somehow been binded for eternity since its creation and as such its untouchable and the reality isn't that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Never thought you were really disagreeing, just leveraging some of my views from quoting yourself! Had no idea 1000 amendments have been attempted, just making the point that their consitution has been undermined, can be undermined and will be undermined. Most Americans in my experience think its somehow been binded for eternity since its creation and as such its untouchable and the reality isn't that. It is true what your saying, I mean even the judges are picked by the president and approved by the senate. The constitution is also extremely open to interpretation so if you had a conservative judge, picked by a conservative president and approved by a conservative senate then it could be very biased, when I say Conservative I mean in their philosophy. It is difficult to change the constitution but not impossible. Sorry for going off on one silly, it was early and was in the middle of trying to complete a philosophy essay on "rights" was such a pain and still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It is true what your saying, I mean even the judges are picked by the president and approved by the senate. The constitution is also extremely open to interpretation so if you had a conservative judge, picked by a conservative president and approved by a conservative senate then it could be very biased, when I say Conservative I mean in their philosophy. It is difficult to change the constitution but not impossible. Sorry for going off on one silly, it was early and was in the middle of trying to complete a philosophy essay on "rights" was such a pain and still is. S'reet. America has its flaws, amazing country though, I'd probably be living there if it wasn't for the missus stomping her feet, was offered a job at the UNLV a couple of years ago, have to settle for sunny Leicestershire now! Good luck with the essay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 S'reet. America has its flaws, amazing country though, I'd probably be living there if it wasn't for the missus stomping her feet, was offered a job at the UNLV a couple of years ago, have to settle for sunny Leicestershire now! Good luck with the essay. Cheers 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I am not sure what I think to America, at times it's amazing but at other times it is so backwards it's scary. I suppose England can be like that on a lesser scale 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> hope you get a job there to get out of Leicester 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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