B4ev6is Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 well derby gace sturggled again during october and november, we have blown hot and cold unable to start a winning streark but injuires have hit us hard once again. even through playing our young players i am all for but we lacked that quiltey experance midfield player and someone who can pick out a pass and someone who cab deliever a mean free kick or a corner kick, and i know some of you are going to jump on me for this but in my eyes ben davies does not cut it, he eathier over hits free kicks or under hits so same for corners, I know he has 10 assits this season but it yet to remain he still does not know how to hit them on target on consiten bases. and this is aimed at the yanks it is all clear to all of us we miss that experance midfielder. and also a striker and a left back and we also need cover a right back. I think 3 points are a must next saturday against Hull but they are not going to be easy beat they are no push over eathier. But one thing that might go for us that they are losing a very good manager, and that might be playing hull players mind right now, but we must use this to our advanate but as derby fans we need to stick with lads and not turn on them, but most of all we must all stick togather as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the464444 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I agree with most of what you say, but the stuff about Ben Davies is slightly ridiculous. 10 Assists. 'Nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Ben Davies assists have lead to around 40% of our goals this yr so can't see how you can moan with this. The question has to be what about the other winger. Now I like Ward and think when he is on his game there is not many better. However when everyone fit would like to see us return to the 5231 formation as think the players we have will suit this formation. ------------------Fielding--------------------- Brayford---Barker----Shackell---Lafferty (if signed)/Roberts -----------Bailey-------Hendricks/Green--- Ben Davies----Bryson------Jamie Ward --------------Tyson/Robinson------------ The bench of Ladzgin (if that is how you spell it), Tyson/Ward, Hendricks/Green, Lafferty/Roberts, O'Brien The reason for two defenders on bench is that the likes of Bailey, Hendricks, Green, Bryson can play anywhere in the midfield 5 so cover each other, defenders are where we seem to pick up most injurues. Ben Davies, Bryson and Ward can interchange throughout the game and not weaken the three and all are quick enough to get up with Tyson and Robinson. Hendricks/Bailey/Green can protect the back four whilst supporting the front 4 and this would leave Davies/Bryson and Ward to support Tyson or Robinson and play on the attack a lot more. This formation works and is utilised by Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool throughout the season depending on players form and injuries. Until we get these players back fit and fully fit Derby will struggle a little I think as we are having to revert to the 442 formation. The problem with this at moment is that Ward and Davies are not notorius tacklers and rather play on the front foot. Bryson is more of an attacking midfielder than a defensive one and is better form was at the beginning of the season in the 3 behind Davies. Hendrick is young and inexperienced but improving all the time. The problem at the minute and especially against Cardiff was that they occupied the same area of the pitch which left a hole to exploit and their experience exploited this. The key for us this season is the defence. O'Brien has done well but missing Barker. Shackell not fully fit and is expected to do more and more each game. Against Cardiff do not think I have seen a CB touch the ball as often as he did as the ball came to him a lot and everything appeared to start with him. Missing Brayford on the right bursting down the wing and has shown we need cover there desperately. Roberts as one season left in him and does not have the legs to support Ward down the wing so if the link to Lafferty is true hope it happens as a left back is needed to build upon in the future. Once the back 4 is back fit and fully fit the strength of the team will return and this will then allow the midfield and strikers to play their game. At present the midfield is having to drop back too deep to help support the defence and this then means the gap between midfield and strikers is too big. So the knock on affect of our weak defence at present is the area I think affecting our performances at present. Hope it is true that Brayford and Barker will be back fit either after this break or shortly after as they are needed back asap before we end up in a run like last year. Personally don't think that will happen as the players this year appear to be more determined to fight where as last year they were more than happy to role over put their hands and legs up into the air and give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 ------------------Fielding--------------------- Brayford---Barker----Shackell---Lafferty (if signed)/Roberts -----------Bailey-------Hendricks/Green--- Ben Davies----Bryson------Jamie Ward --------------Tyson/Robinson------------ That team is going to struggle to finish in the top half.. B.Davies, Bryson and Ward as a front 3 IMO is weak, we had a far better front 3 last year.. We'll never finish in the top 6 if half the team is made up of average players such as Barker, Roberts, Ward, B.Davies and Tyson unless the other 6 are good enough to carry them (which IMO they aren't) I really don't rate B.Davies.. Despite his assists, he's not great defensively, offers no passing rythm, isn't quick along the ground, doesn't move about much and has a poor first touch.. He's good at recievng the ball first time and crossing it in or the odd set peice.. It's not all about assists with midfielders, nor is it all about goals with strikers.. Theres so much more to football than the little stats like that.. If given the choice, who is the better midfielder out of Bailey and B.Davies, Bailey would win hands down despite not getting as many goals/assists.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram2767 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 well derby gace sturggled again during october and november, we have blown hot and cold unable to start a winning streark but injuires have hit us hard once again. even through playing our young players i am all for but we lacked that quiltey experance midfield player and someone who can pick out a pass and someone who cab deliever a mean free kick or a corner kick, and i know some of you are going to jump on me for this but in my eyes ben davies does not cut it, he eathier over hits free kicks or under hits so same for corners, I know he has 10 assits this season but it yet to remain he still does not know how to hit them on target on consiten bases. and this is aimed at the yanks it is all clear to all of us we miss that experance midfielder. and also a striker and a left back and we also need cover a right back. I think 3 points are a must next saturday against Hull but they are not going to be easy beat they are no push over eathier. But one thing that might go for us that they are losing a very good manager, and that might be playing hull players mind right now, but we must use this to our advanate but as derby fans we need to stick with lads and not turn on them, but most of all we must all stick togather as one. 1.Ben Davies is a lot better than you give him credit for, and I think the other two posters have made that clear. Its not a matter of opinion how good he is, its fact. Where would we be without him this season? Without his assists? 2.Were currently in the process of signing cover for right back and Brayford will be back soon anyway. 3.Gareth Roberts is doing well at left back, my motm against Peterborough. But I'm not going to say he's good enough for a long-term option, so I agree there. Otherwise do you not realise that we have actually spent £2m on our 2 main centre-backs. So why is it the boards fault? 4.We're close to a sell-out against Hull so lets hope its loud and we do pull together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 That team is going to struggle to finish in the top half.. B.Davies, Bryson and Ward as a front 3 IMO is weak, we had a far better front 3 last year.. We'll never finish in the top 6 if half the team is made up of average players such as Barker, Roberts, Ward, B.Davies and Tyson unless the other 6 are good enough to carry them (which IMO they aren't) I really don't rate B.Davies.. Despite his assists, he's not great defensively, offers no passing rythm, isn't quick along the ground, doesn't move about much and has a poor first touch.. He's good at recievng the ball first time and crossing it in or the odd set peice.. It's not all about assists with midfielders, nor is it all about goals with strikers.. Theres so much more to football than the little stats like that.. If given the choice, who is the better midfielder out of Bailey and B.Davies, Bailey would win hands down despite not getting as many goals/assists.. Not a surprising comment from you and yet again a comment seeking attention from everyone else on this forum. Not going to be drawn into this. The last paragraph sums it up your last two threads were based on stats that you argued to the enth degree now you say football is more than stats. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I really don't rate B.Davies.. Despite his assists, he's not great defensively, offers no passing rythm, isn't quick along the ground, doesn't move about much and has a poor first touch.. He's good at recievng the ball first time and crossing it in or the odd set peice.. It's not all about assists with midfielders, nor is it all about goals with strikers.. Theres so much more to football than the little stats like that.. If given the choice, who is the better midfielder out of Bailey and B.Davies, Bailey would win hands down despite not getting as many goals/assists.. The bit in bold is something everyone was pointing out to you when you were slating lthe lack of ate goals, but lets not start that argument again. Ben Davies isn't the better technical footballer in comparison with Bailey no, but he is a much more productive footballer than many in the Championship, and if you offered me either one when building a side together then i'd immediately take Ben Davies, for this season atleast. His passing and first touch are fine, and he's nowhere near slow, even if he isn't someone you'd describe as 'gifted with pace'. Nimble would be a better word. (And what a great word it is) Bailey at this moment in time isn't someone who will drastically alter the team, unlike last season. Wheras Ben Davies will always offer a threat from set pieces and crosses, not to mention his good positional play. He un-did Millwall twice after good movement on the right, good passing needed to feed him through of course but it was his movement that created two carbon copy goals for Bryson and Hendrick. We can't afford to lose Ben Davies at this point in time, he creates far too much. 10 assists and he can play anywhere along the attacking three. I'd say it'd be silly to think he's expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Ben Davies will probably get more assists than Iniesta and Sergio Busquets put together .. Does that make him a better fotballer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 No not at all but the statistics ( that u love and adore so much) prove that he is doing a job for derby maybe he isnt brilliant at defending, neither is messi ( bad example I know) but its what they create going forward that is proving the case!! You bleat on about statistics, yet Ben Davies is creating goals for others to score!! He does the simple things like 5-10 yard passes, spreads play to the other side of the pitch, they may not be the big things of a game but the little things build up to the bigger!! He also allows brayford ( when fit) to overlap him as brayford knows that Davies will fill in for him, Ben Davies this season has been in consistency one of Derbys better players for me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 No not at all but the statistics ( that u love and adore so much) prove that he is doing a job for derby maybe he isnt brilliant at defending, neither is messi ( bad example I know) but its what they create going forward that is proving the case!! You bleat on about statistics, yet Ben Davies is creating goals for others to score!! He does the simple things like 5-10 yard passes, spreads play to the other side of the pitch, they may not be the big things of a game but the little things build up to the bigger!! He also allows brayford ( when fit) to overlap him as brayford knows that Davies will fill in for him, Ben Davies this season has been in consistency one of Derbys better players for me!! If you compare him to our last freekick specialists D.Jones and Idiakez then you'll know B.Davies's general play is miles behind those two.. He's useful, yes, but he's not top 6 standard and does very little during the game that makes you think he's a tidy player.. He also goes missing for long periods and he's part of a disjointed midfield that is vulnerable and gets overrun alot.. I'd be disappointed if he's a regular next season (which I assume will be our push for a top 10 place - as this season we'll struggle to make top half IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Right, in this thread Bris has someone come to conclusion Ben Davies, Bryson and Ward are weak 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> and Ben Davies doesn't do anything, apart from be our most productive player of course, but that shouldn't matter... silly me. also Barker as average 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> Bris, Ben Davies has the most assists in the division, not just in our team and you say he hasn't been good enough? I know you don't get to any games and probably manage just to see poor BBC highlights, or whatever means to get a look at the game but seems you do like to make assumptions, like Clough being negative against peterborough for all intense purposes he was probably at fault for not being negative enough IMO (i was at the game) I doubt you'll take in any of what I have said, but just thought I'd make a point because some of your posts baffle me, as mine probably do to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Right, in this thread Bris has someone come to conclusion Ben Davies, Bryson and Ward are weak 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> and Ben Davies doesn't do anything, apart from be our most productive player of course, but that shouldn't matter... silly me. also Barker as average 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> Bris, Ben Davies has the most assists in the division, not just in our team and you say he hasn't been good enough? I know you don't get to any games and probably manage just to see poor BBC highlights, or whatever means to get a look at the game but seems you do like to make assumptions, like Clough being negative against peterborough for all intense purposes he was probably at fault for not being negative enough IMO (i was at the game) I doubt you'll take in any of what I have said, but just thought I'd make a point because some of your posts baffle me, as mine probably do to you. I think he baffles pretty much everyone. He wonders why sometimes his posts are called WUMS. Yes that is what forums are about posting opinions. However he somehow manages to change threads into arguments and I think that is what he is after. Bris if B Davies gets more assists then the players you mentioned I will be chuffed as they play in a team that scores goals for fun and if this is indeed the case then hopefully that means that Derby have scored a fair few goals. As I said previously he has about 40% of the teams assists which is a very good assist percentage as there are 11 players on the pitch contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Ben Davies will probably get more assists than Iniesta and Sergio Busquets put together .. Does that make him a better fotballer? That's not the point, in any way, shape or form. The point that i'm not sure you're grasping is that at this level Ben Davies is creating a hell of alot of goals. Regardless of his stature as a footballer or his technical ability, he creates goals. There may be footballers out there such as Bailey who're better technical footballers but wouldn't have as much of an attacking impact. It'd seem ridiculous in that situation to take Bailey over Ben Davies. Many of his assists have come from open play, more so than his set pieces, so he's clearly also a danger from general play. I'm not suggesting that you wouldn't pick Bailey in this side if he were available (though it'd be a tough choice given Hendricks form) but you seem to view Baileys technical ability over Ben Davies effectiveness. Technical ability gets you nowhere without the players who can make that final pass/cross that leads to a goal. Bueno is a good example when he lost his creative touch during the winter along with Cywka. All that ability was going nowhere because he and Cywka weren't creating anything. That side was crying out for Ben Davies at the time, hence why he was so sought after in January. Obviouly losing Commons sped that deal up, but still. You under-balue him Bris, he's a fine attacking option for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I think ben's crossing and corners are getting quite good. His free kicks haven't had us out our seats much though, but he does seem to be getting those dipping centres in that I saw on the YouTube clips prior to us signing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 to the person who said i don't go to any game i have had a season ticket since pp opened, and in my view being a spacaiest free kick you suppose to get them on target, i am sorry but i think ben daves free kicks are geting worse, than better i would not mind as much if he got them on target more often than not but he does not, Id rather have someone like rob wallace, in this position as he seems to hit the target 9 times out of 10. As for the board they said they would go and get 20 plus goal scorer, but they have not done this as for loans they said they will have a look around but will not rush around, but at the moment they have done sodd all on this front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Does a "top six" player really exist? I think not. Most teams in this league are basically the same. League position is not decided on who's got the best players - it's mainly confidence, momentum and luck with injuries. Chrystal Palace are a good example. There aren't many players in that team that make you think "pwhoooar, now he's going to get them out of this league", and they're not too different from the team that's struggle in recent seasons. You can't sign a top 6 player because top 6 players do not exist, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Dean Moxey seems to be doing well there, people saying that he is thier best LB in years! Does a "top six" player really exist? I think not. Most teams in this league are basically the same. League position is not decided on who's got the best players - it's mainly confidence, momentum and luck with injuries. Chrystal Palace are a good example. There aren't many players in that team that make you think "pwhoooar, now he's going to get them out of this league", and they're not too different from the team that's struggle in recent seasons. You can't sign a top 6 player because top 6 players do not exist, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Would B.Davies get in any of last years top 6 teams? Would B.Davies get in any of this years top 6 teams? Answers no and no. Is B.Davies a top 6 player.. Quite frankly no.. If we want to build a top 6 team, he simply can't feature as a regular.. Squad player yes, regular no.. We're building, and to do that you need to replace average players with better players and make your average first teamers squad players who can come in.. The moment we finish in the top 6 I can garauntee that B.Davies, Ward, Barker, Robinson, S.Davies, Paul Green, N.Tyson, Roberts, Addison, Buxon and R.Anderson will not be regulars in the starting line up.. I'd even put my house (more like cabana) on it.. These players simply aren't good enough and won't be good enough to merit a starting place in a top 6 team.. Squad players perhaps, starting line up no way.. I want us to build a top 6 team, so I want us to bring in players that will dislodge the likes of B.Davies and improve us further.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Does a "top six" player really exist? I think not. Most teams in this league are basically the same. League position is not decided on who's got the best players - it's mainly confidence, momentum and luck with injuries. Chrystal Palace are a good example. There aren't many players in that team that make you think "pwhoooar, now he's going to get them out of this league", and they're not too different from the team that's struggle in recent seasons. You can't sign a top 6 player because top 6 players do not exist, in my opinion. Erm yes you can IMO.. A player that regularly plays for a team in the top 6 can be classified as a top 6 player.. I think I can clearly say P.Whittingham is a top 6 player.. He's finished there on numerous occasions and would be wanted by a top 6 club should Cardiff be selling him. And to the other point, erm yes the best players do help their club get the best finishes.. You wouldn't find a team of Cardiffs quality finishing 17th and you wouldn't find a team of Derbys quality finishing in the top 6. There has never been a team to finish in the top 6 where you simply look at their players and think 'average' They finish in the top 6 because they have decent players, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NothernRam Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 There has never been a team to finish in the top 6 where you simply look at their players and think 'average' Norwich? Though I agree that Derby have no quality at all. Apart from Brayford, Shackell, Barker, Bailey. But all of them are defensive players. Our attacking options are poor. Only Ward looks like a decent player. We are going nowhere with the signings like Tyson (as a first choice, talismanic striker). What a joke. You will never get promoted without proven goalscorer. We had no one for ages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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