Which manager do you want?

[Alex W]

Mmmm, I believe his record at Ipswich was still better than Clough's at Derby.

One manager has been working with an average squad with no cover and limited funding, and the other had a settled mid-table side with alot of funding for whoever he wanted.

He did a truly atrocious job. Variables dear chap, variables.

[CaliRam]

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not 'anti-clough' and don't want to see him replaced - I just feel he hasn't been 'excellent' he's certainly doing ok, but other managers have done more with less resources. This coming season is definitely the one we need to judge him on.

As for Holloway, he's a bit of a weirdo, but he's done an emphatic job at Blackpool and I enjoy that he speaks his mind.

[The Ram]

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not 'anti-clough' and don't want to see him replaced - I just feel he hasn't been 'excellent' he's certainly doing ok, but other managers have done more with less resources. This coming season is definitely the one we need to judge him on.

As for Holloway, he's a bit of a weirdo, but he's done an emphatic job at Blackpool and I enjoy that he speaks his mind.

Agree, and I'm not anti Clough either, and Holloway does speak his mind. He's a Wurzel Gummidge type but does seem to be ok. Doubt he'd ever come to Derby though. Slick Glick and The Yanks will stick with Clough.

One day Peschisolido will become our Manager (Prediction) with Karen Brady on Board.

[uttoxram75]

Laws is crap and has hair like Simon Cowell

[Alex W]

Laws is crap and has hair like Simon Cowell

The second observation is enough reason not to have him here. Nigel has lovely hair, sensible and streamlined.

It does its job amicably well, with as little fuss possible. I do believe he may be basing his footballing style on his hair. Or vice-versa.

Although i'd rather not imagine what kind of bodily features change upon use of the long ball system.

[DesertRam]

I'd keep Nigel, but of that list, would def have Burley back first.

[Duracell]

Not sure that Clough's been excellent looking back at his 3 years, but what more could anyone have done? I think it would have been difficult for any manager to shine at Derby County in the late 2000s.

Clough's not been a failure yet by any stretch of the imagination. This is the season where we'll see how good he is. If we don't seriously improve, then this season will probably condemn his reign to failure.

Not worth bothering talking about who we'd rather have. I'd be more comfortable with some names on that list now than I would have been 2 and a half years ago, the right man to succeed Clough will depend on where he would leave us.

And this discussion is more pointless than a white crayon anyway. This thread is not going to decide who will be manager.

[Alex W]

Not sure that Clough's been excellent looking back at his 3 years, but what more could anyone have done? I think it would have been difficult for any manager to shine at Derby County in the late 2000s.

Clough's not been a failure yet by any stretch of the imagination. This is the season where we'll see how good he is. If we don't seriously improve, then this season will probably condemn his reign to failure.

Not worth bothering talking about who we'd rather have. I'd be more comfortable with some names on that list now than I would have been 2 and a half years ago, the right man to succeed Clough will depend on where he would leave us.

And this discussion is more pointless than a white crayon anyway. This thread is not going to decide who will be manager.

We should decide it by one of those Facebook polls. I dare say that Gavin from Autoglass would be pretty high up there. And Charlie Sheen.

It would make things more interesting, no?

[smiffy]

Am i missing summat smiffy? My recollection is that keane spent billions and still failed miserably.

Points per game, isnt that what its all about

Keane at Ipswich Pl 81 W28 D 25 L 28

Clough at Derby Pl 123 W37 D28 L 58

see what I mean

[Alex W]

Points per game, isnt that what its all about

Keane at Ipswich Pl 81 W28 D 25 L 28

Clough at Derby Pl 123 W37 D28 L 58

see what I mean

Roy Keanes Ipswich: Large, steady squad with lots of funding and some very good youth players already on the scene.

Nigel Cloughs Derby: Decent first string with little to no back-up. No youth players good enough for first team action at the time, and limited funding based on the lowering of wages and dependant on certain players leaving at times.

One is an easy job in comparison with the other. See what I mean?

If you look purely at results, then your thinking is going to be flawed. Nothing is black and white, the world is many shades of grey........

[smiffy]

Roy Keanes Ipswich: Large, steady squad with lots of funding and some very good youth players already on the scene.

Nigel Cloughs Derby: Decent first string with little to no back-up. No youth players good enough for first team action at the time, and limited funding based on the lowering of wages and dependant on certain players leaving at times.

One is an easy job in comparison with the other. See what I mean?

If you look purely at results, then your thinking is going to be flawed. Nothing is black and white, the world is many shades of grey........

I am so ,so tired of all this boll ocks , anyone would think that the only manager with any funding problems is ,or has been Clough, get a grip.

Keane averaged 62pts a season at Ipswich, Clough averages 52 , simple kkkk

[Alex W]

I am so ,so tired of all this boll ocks , anyone would think that the only manager with any funding problems is ,or has been Clough, get a grip.

Keane averaged 62pts a season at Ipswich, Clough averages 52 , simple kkkk

I am not saying that Clough has been the only one. I am saying that he has had to reduce a wage bill of an overpaid and poor squad while keeping us in this league.

Keane already had a decent squad, and he was allowed to spend what he wanted to in order to get them promoted oncemore. He utterly failed.

Not simple no, it's like saying the well fed horse is quicker than the one stricken with exhaustion, simply by reading who won the race. But if you wish think like that, i'm not going to stop you.

[smiffy]

I am not saying that Clough has been the only one. I am saying that he has had to reduce a wage bill of an overpaid and poor squad while keeping us in this league.

Keane already had a decent squad, and he was allowed to spend what he wanted to in order to get them promoted oncemore. He utterly failed.

Not simple no, it's like saying the well fed horse is quicker than the one stricken with exhaustion, simply by reading who won the race. But if you wish think like that, i'm not going to stop you.

So exactly how much did he spend at Ipswich ?, it was not BILLIONS surely:)

[uttoxram75]

Points per game, isnt that what its all about

Keane at Ipswich Pl 81 W28 D 25 L 28

Clough at Derby Pl 123 W37 D28 L 58

see what I mean

yes mate, still think clough is a far better manager than keane will ever be. Your old enough to understand apprenticeships, Cloughies doing one,from the shop floor up:D keane went straight into a management/supervisory position.

He's had fook all to spend so far, we might as well let him see it through unless a sugar daddy takes over!

[Alex W]

So exactly how much did he spend at Ipswich ?, it was not BILLIONS surely:)

£8m on transfer fees, and atleast another £1m in loan fees. Include how high the wage bill must have been, and the fact that he had a better squad than us already, and you have the reason for the higher finishes.

In truth, Ipswich should have been a minimum of top six with that much funding. They finished 19th.

[smiffy]

£8m on transfer fees, and atleast another £1m in loan fees. Include how high the wage bill must have been, and the fact that he had a better squad than us already, and you have the reason for the higher finishes.

In truth, Ipswich should have been a minimum of top six with that much funding. They finished 19th.

I know Leadbetter and Edwards cost a few bob, but who where the others ?

[Alex W]

I know Leadbetter and Edwards cost a few bob, but who where the others ?

George Mccartney and David Healy both returned on loan, and supposedly Liam Rosenior was loaned and a fee paid for his proposed move to go through when the loan finished.

Jack Colback and others went on loan there. If you mean signings I don't know, but the £8m was linked on an article on the Scotsman website, which is a pretty reliable site.

[Bris Vegas]

His Sunderland side were incredibly strong for that league anyway, they were destined for promotion.

Yes, he kept them up, but he had alot of money to do so. And have you forgotten what he did at Ipswich? A blank cheque book, and look what he did. Turned a team where he could spend what he liked into relegation fodder.

Not good enough, and Nigel has had the tougher job. Nigel over Keane, any day of the week.

And that goes for Brian Laws and Ian Dowie too.

Nonsense my friend.. That team finished 20th in The PL with 15 points, they didn't win a home game all season, and had started the new campain losing the first 4 games in the league plus a 2-0 league cup defeat at Bury..

That team was as bad as ours in The PL (well 4 points better)..

Hate Roy Keane all you like, he alone rejuvenated them.. He bought in Carlos Edwards who was superb, he galvanised the likes of Dean Whitehead and Nyron Nosworthy.. His strikers did the business, he gave Ledbitter the chance to shine and he did.. His use of the loan market to get in Jonny Evans and Phil Bardsley from Man Utd was great.

Plus they played very good football, destryoing teams left right and centre.. Basically the same team that achieved 15 points in The PL.. He was a strong enough charactter to get the best out of his players..

He's done twice as much as Clough and Billy Davies in such a short space of time..

Yes he failed at Ipswich (failed finishing midtable), but his record at S'Land was top notch.

Clough better? His record doesnt say so.. What next, Barker is the best CB in the league? Some Derby fans have the biggest case of rose tinted glasses at times.

[Alex W]

Nonsense my friend.. That team finished 20th in The PL with 15 points, they didn't win a home game all season, and had started the new campain losing the first 4 games in the league plus a 2-0 league cup defeat at Bury..

That team was as bad as ours in The PL (well 4 points better)..

Hate Roy Keane all you like, he alone rejuvenated them.. He bought in Carlos Edwards who was superb, he galvanised the likes of Dean Whitehead and Nyron Nosworthy.. His strikers did the business, he gave Ledbitter the chance to shine and he did.. His use of the loan market to get in Jonny Evans and Phil Bardsley from Man Utd was great.

Plus they played very good football, destryoing teams left right and centre.. Basically the same team that achieved 15 points in The PL.. He was a strong enough charactter to get the best out of his players..

He's done twice as much as Clough and Billy Davies in such a short space of time..

Yes he failed at Ipswich (failed finishing midtable), but his record at S'Land was top notch.

Clough better? His record doesnt say so.. What next, Barker is the best CB in the league? Some Derby fans have the biggest case of rose tinted glasses at times.

Indeed they did. But their squad was still very strong for this league, they merely had a morale problem. He had favours from Sir Alex in getting those players in fairness, that was more favourable contacts than being able to find those players.

And he did do well to get them promoted as champions yes, but he had good funding and a good squad anyway. They weren't Premiership quality at all, but in this league at the time they could hold their own very easily. Throw in the odd decent signing and he has them almost certainly getting promotion somehow. As he did. Not taking that away from him, I just don't think it was a very hard job, minus the motivation bit.

Billy Davies got a much worse squad promoted, unfortunately his ability to sign very expensive tat and fall out with the real men in power tends to ruin the success that he builds. Clough has had to reduce costs on an already poor squad, that is no easy task, as has been covered endlessly on these forums, so i've no wish to rake up that debate here.

He failed horribly at Ipswich (I said they finished 19th earlier, meant to say they were 19th when he left, wrong numbers entirely there). Jim Magilton was sacked for not getting into the play offs with the squad he started with. He spent £8m on transfers, £1m on loan fees and who knows how much more the wage bill came to. After all that, he created a team with no confidence and little quality. He was awful.

Clough has not had the oppurtunities that Keane has. Besides which, we've had the Barker discussion. I believe I said he was the 5th/6th best CB in this league. Not the best no. But then you've not seen a fully fit Shaun Barker yet. It strikes me that whenever we've been on tv hes either made mistakes or not really stood out, I think that may well be why you don't rate him.

[Perky1106]

Roy Keane spent £40,000,000 to keep Sunderland in the PL for their first season and still only just managed it.

His loan market grabs were favours from Sir Alex.

He isn't a good manager.