StaffsRam Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think now's the first time that Nigel's had a fair craic at assembling the kind of players he actually wants. Up until now he's been hamstrung by the effect of Hulse, Commons, Varney, Leacock, Pearson, Savage & Bywater on the wagebill. With Hulse, Commons and Savage off it already, and the rest to likely follow he's finally got wage budget to work with. I think it's the wage budget more than anything else that's been the thorn in our side over the last couple of seasons. Far too many average players on far too high wages - Commons and Hulse fair enough, but I doubt that we've got great value out of many of the high earners at the club. TG indicated in the Beeb interview that we're still in for another striker, a LB (yay!), and a defensive mid. Presumably we can add a GK to that seeing as we know an offer's already gone in for Legzdins. I'm mostly happy with the transfer activity with a few caveats - first, I still don't think we've got anyone with Commons' craft and guile, second, I'd like to see some shipped out soon. I know it's dependent on offers being received etc, but the sooner we get rid of Varney, Bywater etc the better. They clearly don't have a future at the club and they're expensive to have hanging around. Overall - happy(ish). Irrespective of actual levels of investment we're actually, and finally, active in the transfer market, which people have been crying out for for the last 3/4 windows. Also, there seems to have been a lot more thought and planning gone into the signings in this window. It's not a repeat of the January PL window where we panic-bought, and it's not a repeat of the last few where we've dithered/missed out/had no plan B. So far, so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I’m still in the GSE out brigade – although I’m starting to waver. I think the current investment is the minimum required to keep us in the division. We were so weak last year that we were only saved by the presence of several teams who would have struggled to avoid relegation from the conference. That was a situation engineered by GSE. Now we have to bring in so many new recruits that there will be the inevitable bedding in period where Nigel sorts the ‘Brayfords’ from the ‘Crofts’. Steady investment over the last three windows would have meant that Nigel could have gradually moulded the squad without the current ‘**** or bust’ approach that could easily go so very wrong. Overall, GSE ownership has been bad for Derby. They have invested a good amount of their own cash, but in such a poor fashion that it has been largely wasted. I fail to see why I should give them credit for slashing the wage bill that they, largely, created. However, an excellent post by Wilkoram a few months ago actually made me think things through a little more. To paraphrase, he said that it was funny that people are happy to give Nigel time to find his feet at this level but expect GSE to be the perfect club managers straight away. I must admit that I was guilty of that. I’m hoping that GSE have finally realized that they need to provide the manager with an adequate level of funding in order to make progress. The evidence of this summer seems to indicate they have. However, if the new recruits suddenly dry up, or Brayford and Bailey get sold to finance the current rebuild, all the good work of the last few weeks will have been for nothing. GSE – much improved over the last few weeks, but still a little more to do to make up for the last few years. If we manage to bring in a quality LB, CF and CM then all will be forgiven and I’ll revert to being very pro-GSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 De ja vu here, every transfer window we seem to have a long debate about GSE, so far they have failed to deliver IMO on every other one. Time will tell if this is to be the one where we get investment into the team, IMO there will be no sting in the tail this time, its what happens after this window to see if this is a long term plan, or another quick fix by Glick to appease the fans. I also pretty sure that the investment into this team is not decided by GSE, but the investors, so Im also not sure that we can hold them at ransom if it doesnt happen. All said, Im still anti GSE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Steady investment over the last three windows would have meant that Nigel could have gradually moulded the squad without the current ‘**** or bust’ approach that could easily go so very wrong. Overall, GSE ownership has been bad for Derby. They have invested a good amount of their own cash, but in such a poor fashion that it has been largely wasted. I fail to see why I should give them credit for slashing the wage bill that they, largely, created. It all depends on how you see it though. As far as I am concerned, the cash that you deem to be wasted, is what's put is in the position we are now, where we can go out and spend a few million on players without even really needing the investors to put their hands in their pockets. Admittedly there was some cash that was 'wasted' early on, but the financial position wasn't great when they took over (£31m debt, wage bill at something like £26m, Claude Davies on a huge long contract etc). It's difficult to judge how involved GSE were in signings like Savage, because they happened before the takeover, but with full knowledge that the takeover was about to go ahead. There were certainly bad signings after GSE took over, but they were players that Jewell wanted (Ellington, Stewart, Albrechtson etc), so it's hard to blame the board for wasting cash when they were backing their manager. Certainly any investment that's gone towards debt reduction is not wasted imo. And the problem with steady investment is that we were getting steady investment already, covering the wages overspend. Piling more transfer fees and wages on top of that would have just prolonged the cost-cutting period. It certainly looks like we're through the worst of it now, and we are in a strong position to build from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 It all depends on how you see it though. As far as I am concerned, the cash that you deem to be wasted, is what's put is in the position we are now, where we can go out and spend a few million on players without even really needing the investors to put their hands in their pockets. Admittedly there was some cash that was 'wasted' early on, but the financial position wasn't great when they took over (£31m debt, wage bill at something like £26m, Claude Davies on a huge long contract etc). It's difficult to judge how involved GSE were in signings like Savage, because they happened before the takeover, but with full knowledge that the takeover was about to go ahead. There were certainly bad signings after GSE took over, but they were players that Jewell wanted (Ellington, Stewart, Albrechtson etc), so it's hard to blame the board for wasting cash when they were backing their manager. Certainly any investment that's gone towards debt reduction is not wasted imo. And the problem with steady investment is that we were getting steady investment already, covering the wages overspend. Piling more transfer fees and wages on top of that would have just prolonged the cost-cutting period. It certainly looks like we're through the worst of it now, and we are in a strong position to build from. My understanding is that the wage bill was around £20m (a sustainable figure in the PL and not too bad in Championship with parachute payments) before the January signing spree. Admittedly that came just befroe GSE's actual take over but Adam Pearson stated that it was at their insistance so I feel justified in blaming GSE for the club's financial malaise. http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Pearson-time-right-leave/story-11568673-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 i was neither pro or anti GSE...just a bit of a sceptic but since Ramblur identified that they'd put in £21m? I think we have to accept that this is pretty good they have to bring salaries within a sustainable level - thats ok with me they gave nigel the mission to bring in lower league gems and young players for the future despite some successes he didnt really deliver they stuck by him last season even though he fcked things up a bit and they have provided investment this year therefore they have passed the test up to nigel now........ If we were Doncaster, this business model would not work. 60% of their turnover wouldn't be enough to compete in this league as it is. It only works here because of our revenue compared to other clubs. As Ramblur said on another thread, he thinks that the ROI will be small and slow, with promotion a by product. I agree with him. I couldn't disagree more with you tbh 21m isn't the promised investment. They have bought the wages down to go with their business model, not to get in the top 10- that sounds stupid and obvious. Mission to bring in lower league players....why do you think that is? saleable assets? Lower wages? I'm almost 100% they haven't invested...this would go against their business model. Up to Nigel now.....feel sorry for you Nigel. Meh.....i'm worried. Think Nigel is going to take the blame this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 As Ramblur said on another thread, he thinks that the ROI will be small and slow, with promotion a by product. I agree with him. eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 eh? "The Budget" thread. Didn't word it properly, meant small amounts each season. Not a small ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It all depends on how you see it though. As far as I am concerned, the cash that you deem to be wasted, is what's put is in the position we are now, where we can go out and spend a few million on players without even really needing the investors to put their hands in their pockets. Admittedly there was some cash that was 'wasted' early on, but the financial position wasn't great when they took over (£31m debt, wage bill at something like £26m, Claude Davies on a huge long contract etc). It's difficult to judge how involved GSE were in signings like Savage, because they happened before the takeover, but with full knowledge that the takeover was about to go ahead. There were certainly bad signings after GSE took over, but they were players that Jewell wanted (Ellington, Stewart, Albrechtson etc), so it's hard to blame the board for wasting cash when they were backing their manager. Certainly any investment that's gone towards debt reduction is not wasted imo. And the problem with steady investment is that we were getting steady investment already, covering the wages overspend. Piling more transfer fees and wages on top of that would have just prolonged the cost-cutting period. It certainly looks like we're through the worst of it now, and we are in a strong position to build from. Why do you disregard the rest of the inheritance in that first period,duncan?It appears they had effective control of £24m of tv revenues in 07/08 and they inherited plenty of saleable assets to more than match the contract liabilities of Clod etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Clods available on a free I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Clods available on a free I see. Spuds are fine,Boycie-it's other things I've to worry about:eek: I did finally reply,after sorting out propaganda issues:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Clods available on a free I see. Some Welsh long haired t**t is also free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Spuds are fine,Boycie-it's other things I've to worry about:eek: I did finally reply,after sorting out propaganda issues:D Is that a cryptic reply for "I'm an ex Rams Chairman!" lol! Wilja? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Is that a cryptic reply for "I'm an ex Rams Chairman!" lol! Wilja? Deeply offended-don't think Gadsby expresses himself all that well,though I do prefer that to the slick talk:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Deeply offended-don't think Gadsby expresses himself all that well,though I do prefer that to the slick talk:) :eek: YOU SAID GAD er GADS erm YOU SAID IT! DAvvvvEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 oh shhhiiiittttt......Ramblurs mentioned the "G" word. There'll be a laser targeted air strike any second.....get out of this thread asap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 oh shhhiiiittttt......Ramblurs mentioned the "G" word. There'll be a laser targeted air strike any second.....get out of this thread asap... The forum was off-line for a few hours there. I was beginning to wonder whether men in suits had been in contact about ramblur’s use of the “G” word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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