Subman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well find out this week there is a meeting at PP on the issue on Thursday. Just for information, the FFP agenda for the Championship is being lead by Portsmouth, Forest and us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 We go around in circles, the climate isnt that different to Burleys rein, which as ive put before I worked at the club then. The budget was smaller than the current wage bill that Glick quotes. I really cant see us being the envy of anyone unless we are winning promotion. We have this thing in our heads that we are so well run and every other club above us isnt, there will always be the pompeys of the world, always have been, yet you can run a club well and be pushing on. You are laping up Glicks spin. The FFP isnt going to hurt all these clubs otherwise it wont get voted in, it will end up so watered down, these things always do. The budget for Burley was smaller but the wages were no where near as big as they are now. Inflation and the stock of football since Burleys time has meant that wages have increased sharply and not steadily. Look the dogs down the road. Their squad isn't brilliant but their wages currently run at 109% of club income. What will happen to them now. If you think the likes of Stimack, Biano, Wanchope, Sturridge would be at our club on now on the wages we are offering think again. We had a chairman who was covering the costs very much like Doughty at Forest. These players are legends for some of the new fans in the 1990's however it will be a long time before we are in a position to attract that kind of player again in the future - and this down to money. Players then played as they enjoyed it and showed loyalty, players led by their agents think in the majority money first club second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Don't think Forest or Portsmouth have been leading anything to do with FFP otherwise they wouldn't have been spending way more than they are earning. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Don't think Forest or Portsmouth have been leading anything to do with FFP otherwise they wouldn't have been spending way more than they are earning. Thats why they are both leading this with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The budget for Burley was smaller but the wages were no where near as big as they are now. Inflation and the stock of football since Burleys time has meant that wages have increased sharply and not steadily. Look the dogs down the road. Their squad isn't brilliant but their wages currently run at 109% of club income. What will happen to them now. If you think the likes of Stimack, Biano, Wanchope, Sturridge would be at our club on now on the wages we are offering think again. We had a chairman who was covering the costs very much like Doughty at Forest. These players are legends for some of the new fans in the 1990's however it will be a long time before we are in a position to attract that kind of player again in the future - and this down to money. Players then played as they enjoyed it and showed loyalty, players led by their agents think in the majority money first club second. Well Sturridge was a youth player, Wanchope was playing in that hotbed of costa rica going for trials around england trying to find a club, they wouldnt have demanded that much. Anyway the team that won promotion didnt have all the big players, they were made up of players left over who werent sold off, Hoult, Simo, Yates etc, players that Smith got in Williams, D Powell, some they got as make weights in deals Rowett (C Short deal) and Flynn (Paul Williams deal) and a few youth players, Sturridge and Carsley. Then to be fair they did bring in Stimac which was before the european boom so Im guessing he wasnt on he wasnt on masses. When we got up we then did spend but when he came in it was pretty much cut the swqad which for the time had a lot of money spent on it. Burleys team were not on big wages, he brought in good pros at the end of there careers, Kenna, Johnno, Taylor, had a few youth players, Huddleston, Mills, then added some added some spanish lad no one wanted from the 2nd tier of spanish football, Idiakez and some bloke who had suppose had his best days and was back playing in Denmark. They were all on very low wages when they first signed. Anyway, back to Clough, why do the people who love him seem to think anyone who doesnt think he has done brilliant hates him. I think he has done an ok job, not bad but I would just like to see more progress in the way we play. I will compare him to Burley as even in the dreadfull first season the team were trying to pass and move and the defence pushed up and press the play, how Burley likes to play. Under Clough it seems like we have been trying something new every season and the way we play for me is very boring, safety first and negitive. I prefer to use workmanlike as that doesnt sound as harsh. Now thats ok but I just expected a bit more after this amount of time even with cutting the costs. Im not expecting us to romp the league but just better than what has been dished up. I know its not just me I speak to lots of people who I play football, golf, friends and working all over the shop who feels the same. Yet now we have stuck with him we should see it through for another few years as otherwise we are starting again which would be pointless really, I hope it turns out well as the end of the day we all just want Derby to be force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just for information, the FFP agenda for the Championship is being lead by Portsmouth, Forest and us. Interesting. Anyone know of any articles about DCFC's involvement in leading this? Remains to be seen whether Pompey and Forest will still be in business by Thursday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well Sturridge was a youth player, Wanchope was playing in that hotbed of costa rica going for trials around england trying to find a club, they wouldnt have demanded that much. Anyway the team that won promotion didnt have all the big players, they were made up of players left over who werent sold off, Hoult, Simo, Yates etc, players that Smith got in Williams, D Powell, some they got as make weights in deals Rowett (C Short deal) and Flynn (Paul Williams deal) and a few youth players, Sturridge and Carsley. Then to be fair they did bring in Stimac which was before the european boom so Im guessing he wasnt on he wasnt on masses. When we got up we then did spend but when he came in it was pretty much cut the swqad which for the time had a lot of money spent on it. Burleys team were not on big wages, he brought in good pros at the end of there careers, Kenna, Johnno, Taylor, had a few youth players, Huddleston, Mills, then added some added some spanish lad no one wanted from the 2nd tier of spanish football, Idiakez and some bloke who had suppose had his best days and was back playing in Denmark. They were all on very low wages when they first signed. Anyway, back to Clough, why do the people who love him seem to think anyone who doesnt think he has done brilliant hates him. I think he has done an ok job, not bad but I would just like to see more progress in the way we play. I will compare him to Burley as even in the dreadfull first season the team were trying to pass and move and the defence pushed up and press the play, how Burley likes to play. Under Clough it seems like we have been trying something new every season and the way we play for me is very boring, safety first and negitive. I prefer to use workmanlike as that doesnt sound as harsh. Now thats ok but I just expected a bit more after this amount of time even with cutting the costs. Im not expecting us to romp the league but just better than what has been dished up. I know its not just me I speak to lots of people who I play football, golf, friends and working all over the shop who feels the same. Yet now we have stuck with him we should see it through for another few years as otherwise we are starting again which would be pointless really, I hope it turns out well as the end of the day we all just want Derby to be force. I am just ever so curious how people seem to know what players are earning, even going back a few years. Has there been 'open days' in the accounts office at Derby County with wage slips out on display? If there has, I have missed them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why would Pompey and Forest be leading FFP when it will impose sanctions on them for being run crap. Losing 11m a year isn't going to be easy to reduce and I would have though Forest at least wouldnt want it being imposed because of the sanctions it could bring. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I am just ever so curious how people seem to know what players are earning, even going back a few years. Has there been 'open days' in the accounts office at Derby County with wage slips out on display? If there has, I have missed them!!! Well I only know roughly what players were on under Burley as I worked for him and Simon Hunt at the time in a scouting role. No I didnt scout players I just went and watched and compliled reports on future opponents. Clearly if I saw who I thought was a good player I would tell them but they clearly never listed. Phil Brown got rid of most of the scouts as was only looking for players with "Prem mentality". I then worked for an agency who then provided these reports to teams. i.e Derby would pay the agency for a list of reports on Doncaster instead of paying there own staff. I didnt get paid but was young but then reliased driving down to reading on a cold night wasnt that appealing any more and packed it in. Oh and Burley would always talk about things when he had a few and was drooling over women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 if he is, we will be in the conference. You still never fail to astound me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 We don't know if anyone would have done a better job but didn't Jim smith get us into the prem when his ask was to get rid of all the big earners? Didn't burley get us into the play offs doing the same thing? Hmm, yes because football and finances are exactly the same now aren't they? Unfortunately, there is nothing to compare it to because it is now a very different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why would Pompey and Forest be leading FFP when it will impose sanctions on them for being run crap. Losing 11m a year isn't going to be easy to reduce and I would have though Forest at least wouldnt want it being imposed because of the sanctions it could bring. . I think the original post was somewhat sarcastic matey (or are you being sarcastic?...I need a lie down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Financially i think Clough has done a good job, it wasnt rocket science to get rid of ****, over paid players but at least he done it. On the pitch though we've made very little progress. Who can honestly say after over three years of Clough being here they're happy with going away to a bottom 5 side and playing for a draw? He's got rid of players and put his own in there and implemented his own style of football. He favours a work horse over a player with skill or flair, he favours negative football over expansive football and he'd rather take a 0-0 than go for the win. No manager that does this will ever have my respect or approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Financially i think Clough has done a good job, it wasnt rocket science to get rid of ****, over paid players but at least he done it. A lot of which was his own, signed or resigned, overpaid ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamOfKansas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 As a relatively newer fan I really don't have much right of an opinion on this but here goes. Clough has been manager since only 09', he went about retooling the entire team with what resources he had on hand. He hasn't been a complete disaster, while obviously not performing miracles. Another year or two, if the club still hasn't made any progress than sure this can be a serious discussion. Unless a coach/manager is a complete disaster, then I'm of the conservative opinion that you need to give it 4 to 5 years depending upon the conditions that he came in under originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Your opinion is just as valid as anyone's in my book ROK - and I agree with it for the most part but the team looks a bit predictable of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamOfKansas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 They're young as has been stated. Young players generally in any sport, aren't ready to break thru past usually more experienced opponents. This leads to predictability. I'd rather have consistent scrappy efforts at this point in the process, than a bunch of young players running around like their heads have been lopped off getting blitzed every single time. Sure they might put up some guady plays, but consistency is the real key to development. Evuantally they'll open up their game, but young guady players making a ton of mistakes usually never develop much beyond being capable of genius or harebrained idiocy at any given situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 This is where you are listening to Glicks spin. Me like many others dont see the bigger picture? Derby will be laughing when the banks call the money in from all these clubs? I dispair. Is 6th form off this week. Oh dear, Rangers and Portsmouth gone into administration, unless this is more Glick spin. And comments like that on the end of your sentence really do make your arguments look even more pathetic. If 6th form is off this week, see if you can get a student round to teach you how to spell despair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Oh dear, Rangers and Portsmouth gone into administration, unless this is more Glick spin. And comments like that on the end of your sentence really do make your arguments look even more pathetic. If 6th form is off this week, see if you can get a student round to teach you how to spell despair! Yes misspelling a word is something no student ever does. Especially a 6th form one. My misses is a published author and amazingly sometimes spells things incorrectly. thanks for the English lesson though. So two clubs are struggling, as I wrote before there will always be clubs that struggle there always has and sadly always will. The banks will not be calling in all the money on football clubs and derby will not be left laughing. To think this is living in dream land and need to get in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yes misspelling a word is something no student ever does. Especially a 6th form one. My misses is a published author and amazingly sometimes spells things incorrectly. thanks for the English lesson though. So two clubs are struggling, as I wrote before there will always be clubs that struggle there always has and sadly always will. The banks will not be calling in all the money on football clubs and derby will not be left laughing. To think this is living in dream land and need to get in the real world. Rangers are a club that are much bigger than anyone in our division, if it can happen to them what makes you so sure that it will not happen to other clubs? And just so you know it is not the bank calling in either of these two clubs debts, it is HMR&C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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