Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Did you go to Wembley..? Enjoy it? end of discussion me thinks. That's not part of this argument, anyone will enjoy a win at wembley and promotion. The point is I won't pay to watch incredibly dull football, nor should anyone else feel obliged to. Football was created for 'fun', if you don't enjoy going on match day because the football is dull, then you're failing your fans. You keep your dull football, i'll take the attractive stuff. The Wembley win was great, but it's not the point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartley Hare Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Did you go to Wembley..? Enjoy it? end of discussion me thinks. And to be clear, no, I didn't go to Wembley, I watched it at home. Did I enjoy it? No, it was a crap game of football. Was I glad we'd won? Yes and no - Yes, because we'd won at Wembley, we'd got loads of money coming into the club and we'd acheived promotion ahead of schedule. No, because the way we'd ended the season, including the play-off final, did not make me optimistic with regards to our prospects in the PL. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 There you go again, mixing generalisation with specifics. You keep mixing your examples to attempt to prove your point. Wembley was a one-off, a cup final, the atmosphere generated by the stakes at hand would have made any match exciting for the fans of each team. Alex and I were talking about a team which habitually played dull monotonous football, week in, week out, no ambition to entertain, no responsibility to the fans. Why then should the fans be expected to have any responsibilty to the club? If you want to shell out your money to be bored just so you can be happy about the league table afterwards then that's your perogative. I think Alex and I would prefer to shell the money out, enjoy the game AND be happy about the league table. That might make us idealists in some eyes, but we think it's possible to do all that whereas you seem to think that you can't entertain and win. I guess that, as a neutral, you were equally happy with Spain winning the European Championship as you were when Greece won. 1 team played skillful, entertaining football and won, the other team was Greece. But hey, winning is all that counts, allegedly. True, both teams are recorded as having won, but each win will be regarded completely differently because of the way in which the win was acheived. And that's the real legacy. Precisely my point. Nice one Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Precisely my point. Nice one Neil Exactly my point....if you were a Greece fan would you be saying..."yeah, we won it, but we didn't play great football"... or would you be saying... "wooo hooo...we won!!!" (in Greek of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Exactly my point....if you were a Greece fan would you be saying..."yeah, we won it, but we didn't play great football"... or would you be saying... "wooo hooo...we won!!!" (in Greek of course) Well I want to win it better than them, do you understand my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Well I want to win it better than them, do you understand my point? We all WANT to win playing the best football in the world ever, but my point is that it is BETTER to win playing functional football than play lovely football and not win. another example... Chelsea...ask their fans if they prefer winnning the league every year or if they preferred the better football they produced with Spencer and Dorigo etc but without the trophies.? i am fully aware that you can do both, but that is not my point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartley Hare Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 We all WANT to win playing the best football in the world ever, but my point is that it is BETTER to win playing functional football than play lovely football and not win. another example... Chelsea...ask their fans if they prefer winnning the league every year or if they preferred the better football they produced with Spencer and Dorigo etc but without the trophies.? i am fully aware that you can do both, but that is not my point at all. Odd example Michel, I think the Chelsea I saw last year was better to watch than the Chelsea of the late 80's/early 90's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 We all WANT to win playing the best football in the world ever, but my point is that it is BETTER to win playing functional football than play lovely football and not win. another example... Chelsea...ask their fans if they prefer winnning the league every year or if they preferred the better football they produced with Spencer and Dorigo etc but without the trophies.? i am fully aware that you can do both, but that is not my point at all. Chelsea are a great side to watch, so that's not a good example. But besides that, the point is you should strive to play the lovely football. You shouldn't contemplate playing the functional football, you should play the attractive football and win or fail trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartley Hare Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 We all WANT to win playing the best football in the world ever, but my point is that it is BETTER to win playing functional football than play lovely football and not win. another example... Chelsea...ask their fans if they prefer winnning the league every year or if they preferred the better football they produced with Spencer and Dorigo etc but without the trophies.? i am fully aware that you can do both, but that is not my point at all. When you say BETTER, you mean BETTER for you. Alex and I think not, for us. Equally valid opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartley Hare Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Chelsea are a great side to watch, so that's not a good example. But besides that, the point is you should strive to play the lovely football. You shouldn't contemplate playing the functional football, you should play the attractive football and win or fail trying. It's ok, Alex, Michel is an engineer. Functional is his thing. He doesn't understand creative artisan's like ourselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 When you say BETTER, you mean BETTER for you. Alex and I think not, for us. Equally valid opinions. So genuinely you would rather play nice pretty football and win nothing than play like Chelsea and win the league...? Really.? Chelsea don't play great football, they are like a team of terminators turning up and just powering past teams, did you not see the way they beat Arsenal the other week, let Arsenal have the ball for 88 minutes playing the nice tip tappy football, then get it and blast through them and win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 So genuinely you would rather play nice pretty football and win nothing than play like Chelsea and win the league...? Really.? Chelsea don't play great football, they are like a team of terminators turning up and just powering past teams, did you not see the way they beat Arsenal the other week, let Arsenal have the ball for 88 minutes playing the nice tip tappy football, then get it and blast through them and win the game. I would rather do win in style, or fail trying. And I think they did that to make sure they won the game, but it was still an exciting game. Entertaining to say the least. I would have far preffered them trying to match them but it didn't happen. However, look at how they play most of the time, it's great to watch, and the supporters love them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 It's ok, Alex, Michel is an engineer. Functional is his thing. He doesn't understand creative artisan's like ourselves.... Hehe perhaps not Besides, someone has got to be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I would rather do win in style, or fail trying. And I think they did that to make sure they won the game, but it was still an exciting game. Entertaining to say the least. I would have far preffered them trying to match them but it didn't happen. However, look at how they play most of the time, it's great to watch, and the supporters love them for it. neither of you have answered my question properly... Would you rather... Win playing "boring football" or Lose playing "great football" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 neither of you have answered my question properly... Would you rather... Win playing "boring football" or Lose playing "great football" ?? I'd go for the great football, even though you were losing. And great football wouldn't lose matches anyway If you must have your team always losing or winning, of course you'd have to take winning, but I wouldn't be there to see it. Infact, I wouldn't go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I'm afraid I'll still go no matter what division we're in. I like to get out the house, away from the trouble and strife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartley Hare Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 There you go again Michel. Why does "nice pretty football" always have to equal not winning? No, I didn't see Chelsea beat Arsenal last week, but when I have seen them they have played good football for the most part, although they do miss Lampard at the moment. Whatever, you're missing the point again. No team is going to play "nice pretty football" all the time, Spain don't, Cruyff's Holland team didn't, even the legendary Brazillians didn't. They play as each phase of each game dictates. The point Alex and I were trying to make, and yet so difficult for you to understand, is that a team which sets out to play each week with a negative mindset does not deserve support, it's contrary to the spirit of the game and betrays any support they do receive from the fans, and I won't pay to watch it. My perogative, and I'll exercise it. Your happy to pay to watch crap just so you can say you were there. Your perogative, and you can exercise it. People think there's not mutch atmosphere at Pride Park now, there'd be even less if we all knew we'd be turning up to watch another rubbish game regardless of the result. Football is an entertainment industry, those who forget that do so at their peril. The ends cannot always justify the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 There you go again Michel. Why does "nice pretty football" always have to equal not winning? No, I didn't see Chelsea beat Arsenal last week, but when I have seen them they have played good football for the most part, although they do miss Lampard at the moment. Whatever, you're missing the point again. No team is going to play "nice pretty football" all the time, Spain don't, Cruyff's Holland team didn't, even the legendary Brazillians didn't. They play as each phase of each game dictates. The point Alex and I were trying to make, and yet so difficult for you to understand, is that a team which sets out to play each week with a negative mindset does not deserve support, it's contrary to the spirit of the game and betrays any support they do receive from the fans, and I won't pay to watch it. My perogative, and I'll exercise it. Your happy to pay to watch crap just so you can say you were there. Your perogative, and you can exercise it. People think there's not mutch atmosphere at Pride Park now, there'd be even less if we all knew we'd be turning up to watch another rubbish game regardless of the result. Football is an entertainment industry, those who forget that do so at their peril. The ends cannot always justify the means. I am fully aware that it is possible to win things playing great football, I have witnessed it, that is not the point I am trying to get you to answer. And at least Alex has answered it, albeit dishonestly, but he has answered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I am fully aware that it is possible to win things playing great football, I have witnessed it, that is not the point I am trying to get you to answer. And at least Alex has answered it, albeit dishonestly, but he has answered it. Why dishonestly? That's what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 neither of you have answered my question properly... Would you rather... Win playing "boring football" or Lose playing "great football" ?? Seen as I have a season ticket, I pay to be entertained by my club, and I expect them to play the Derby way. So, as a financial contributor, I would prefer the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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