Inglorius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 34 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: who are etc, etc...... The clubs you mention by name are in cities with populations of many millions, Derby has a population of about 250k. Finally I remember Man City and Man utd in the old second division and currently Man City are in deep trouble with EUEFA and facing enormous fines/sanctions because of foreign investment and Man utd have more debt than a small african country, nothing lasts forever. You're being misleading with the information you provide to prove your point, the City of Manchester has a population of about 500,000 whilst Greater Manchester has that of about 2.5 million which includes other towns. So Derby has a population of about half that of Manchester and doesn't run into many millions as you quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said: ‘Every English football club that has pimped its self to a foreign owner, will in the fullness of time regret the sugar rush of the initial investment and fade into obscurity’ That’s probably not true. Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal have all won trophies - that’s the point. If some of those teams have had a ‘slump’ in their history, that’s great, as they’re back and winning more trophies. I think Derby being a little town is irrelevant in this case. Etc etc is just a semantic habit of mine but you could list Liverpool or Leicester if required ? I could quote examples such as; Forest, Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Charlton as being examples of mid sized clubs where foreign investment has mot worked and has threatened the existence of the clubs that took the foreign cash. Lets keep DCFC in local ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinder Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, BaaLocks said: I prefer "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom" And there is your William Blake quote for the day, y're welcome.... Wisdom lives in a palace? We’re paying him too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Inglorius said: You're being misleading with the information you provide to prove your point, the City of Manchester has a population of about 500,000 whilst Greater Manchester has that of about 2.5 million which includes other towns. So Derby has a population of about half that of Manchester and doesn't run into many millions as you quote. You prove my point Manchester Utd is in Salford which is part of greater Manchester as is Eccles, Swinton etc, the population of Manchester is multi millions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 56 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: Whilst I normally agree with all of your postings, I must take exception to the assumption that we need foreign investment in the club. Has the self esteem of the UK as a nation and a city like Derby descended so low that DCFC, a locally fan owned club wants to be sold by its fans to become a trophy possession of a foreign oligarch. Every English football club that has pimped its self to a foreign owner, will in the fullness of time regret the sugar rush of the initial investment and fade into obscurity as the realisation of the foreign owners that a football club is forever not just as a fashion accessory. It's not my opinion; it's what has been said in many debates about the club finances on here. I have expressed my preference but added the rider about whether that much money is 'enough' to get us where we want to be. As I said previously, I don't know enough about football finances to put forward a case for a sole local owner (who is rich, but not mega-rich by football standards. ) Of course I would prefer if Mel stuck with us; how far that will take us I just don't know. How long before the mega-clubs "fade into obscurity "? Chelsea seem to have been at the top for a long time now. Bournemouth a more recent example and not a huge city . You seem to be saying that we are a provincial club - maybe you are happy for us never to try to get back to days where we compete at the top? I would hate that; a club that never tries to better itself just stagnates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: I could quote examples such as; Forest, Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Charlton as being examples of mid sized clubs where foreign investment has mot worked and has threatened the existence of the clubs that took the foreign cash. Lets keep DCFC in local ownership. As I initially said, I get your point. And I’m a fan of Mel. But no-one can say that every foreign owned club will be a disaster and fade into obscurity. Selfishly, I could argue as devils advocate that I’d happily take a billionaires investment so we have 20 years of success before we disappear into obscurity. Sod it. I’d see us win the lot before I retire to the big promotion in the sky. Instead of the current status quo where Derby win nothing and reminisce about 46, 72 and 75 plus the very enjoyable crumbs of 86, 87, 89, 96 and 07. It’s not an exclusive choice obviously but I wouldn’t rule out investment, success or the crumbs wherever they come from. I’ve grown fond of those crumbs actually. They just get scarcer but tastier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, angieram said: It's not my opinion; it's what has been said in many debates about the club finances on here. I have expressed my preference but added the rider about whether that much money is 'enough' to get us where we want to be. As I said previously, I don't know enough about football finances to put forward a case for a sole local owner (who is rich, but not mega-rich by football standards. ) Of course I would prefer if Mel stuck with us; how far that will take us I just don't know. How long before the mega-clubs "fade into obscurity "? Chelsea seem to have been at the top for a long time now. Bournemouth a more recent example and not a huge city . You seem to be saying that we are a provincial club - maybe you are happy for us never to try to get back to days where we compete at the top? I would hate that; a club that never tries to better itself just stagnates. In order to be a top 6 premiership club you would have to spend in excess of £500 million, that is never going to happen, with our crowd size and catchment area, no foreign investor is going to put in that amount of cash, and those that believe a hundred million or so will get DCFC back to the top of the Premiership are delusional. A club that sells itself for a sackful of dollars/euros/yem/reminbi/ is one that has sold its soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: You prove my point Manchester Utd is in Salford which is part of greater Manchester as is Eccles, Swinton etc, the population of Manchester is multi millions Again you're being deliberately selective to prove your point, so the City of Manchester Stadium isn't in Manchester City boundaries then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Inglorius said: Again you're being deliberately selective to prove your point, so the City of Manchester Stadium isn't in Manchester City boundaries then? Of course it is in Manchester, your argument is fatuous Manchester comprises the entire area of Greater Manchester, the same as London comprises 32 separate boroughs, if I take your argument to its logical conclusion Chelsea only has a population of 160,000 and Tottenham only 130,000 all smaller than Derby. If I were you I would give up on this argument you lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, eddie said: Even though we had our greatest success then, the club itself was fractured and very disjointed. Yes of course but I was referring to success on the pitch not the all too sad politics at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: In order to be a top 6 premiership club you would have to spend in excess of £500 million, that is never going to happen, with our crowd size and catchment area, no foreign investor is going to put in that amount of cash, and those that believe a hundred million or so will get DCFC back to the top of the Premiership are delusional. A club that sells itself for a sackful of dollars/euros/yem/reminbi/ is one that has sold its soul. Just out of curiosity, what do you suggest if not investment? Accept our lot as a provincial club who will amount to little or nothing, not unlike the vast majority of our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: Of course it is in Manchester, your argument is fatuous Manchester comprises the entire area of Greater Manchester, the same as London comprises 32 separate boroughs, if I take your argument to its logical conclusion Chelsea only has a population of 160,000 and Tottenham only 130,000 all smaller than Derby. If I were you I would give up on this argument you lost. No it doesn't. Greater Manchester comprises of other football clubs such as Rochdale Bolton Oldham. Your comment quoted Manchester City whom are in the city of Manchester which doesn't have a population of millions as you put it but 500k. You don't differentiate between the two. If your method of debating is to say you've lost the argument so there then that's hardly a coherent argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Key Club King Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Mel is subsidising the club to the tune of about £10m per annum and people are taking about wanting more investment in the club? What you are seeking isn't an investor, but an idiot. Be thankful for what you've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Tim Bucktoo said: Just out of curiosity, what do you suggest if not investment? Accept our lot as a provincial club who will amount to little or nothing, not unlike the vast majority of our history. Burnley would be my model, who with a good manager and local owners and with astute purchases have remained in the premiership, had no debt and £20m cash in the bank in their last accounts. They also finished just outside the top 6 and were in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Inglorius said: No it doesn't. Greater Manchester comprises of other football clubs such as Rochdale Bolton Oldham. Your comment quoted Manchester City whom are in the city of Manchester which doesn't have a population of millions as you put it but 500k. You don't differentiate between the two. If your method of debating is to say you've lost the argument so there then that's hardly a coherent argument. Its all about the catchment area, which is greater manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said: Burnley would be my model, who with a good manager and local owners and with astute purchases have remained in the premiership, had no debt and £20m cash in the bank in their last accounts. They also finished just outside the top 6 and were in Europe. So accept their lot as a provincial club who will amount to little or nothing, not unlike the vast majority of their history ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Asheville Ram said: Its all about the catchment area, which is greater manchester You're not being consistent with your argument though, you quote Greater Manchester on one hand but the city of Derby on the other with a population of 250k. The catchment area of Derby County isn't just the city of Derby boundaries. If youre going to debate a point then at least be consistent which was my original point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inglorius said: You're not being consistent with your argument though, you quote Greater Manchester on one hand but the city of Derby on the other with a population of 250k. The catchment area of Derby County isn't just the city of Derby boundaries. If youre going to debate a point then at least be consistent which was my original point. The catchment area for DCFC is patently of a magnitude smaller than for the Manchester clubs, as I said the argument is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said: So accept their lot as a provincial club who will amount to little or nothing, not unlike the vast majority of their history ? I think this is on par with our honours as a club , so your statement is insulting to Burnley. Anglo-Scottish CupWinner1 FA Charity ShieldWinner2 FA CupRunner-up2 FA CupWinner1 Football League TrophyRunner-up1 League ChampionshipChampion1 League ChampionshipRunner-up1 League Division 2Runner-up1 League Division FourChampion1 League Division OneChampion2 League Division OneRunner-up2 League Division ThreeChampion1 League Division TwoChampion2 League Division TwoRunner-up2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Asheville Ram said: The catchment area for DCFC is patently of a magnitude smaller than for the Manchester clubs, as I said the argument is over. It's not 250k though is it as you quoted. You didnt compare the city of Derby with the city of Manchester but the city of Derby with Greater Manchester to try to reinforce your argument. Be consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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