Comrade 86 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 And so after 28 years of smears and deceit, the Hillsborough disaster accused finally appear in court. Frankly, I hope the lot of them get absolutely buried for their part in the most tragic and shameful episode in our game's history. My only regret is that Kelvin MacKenzie and that rank PoS Rupert Murdoch are not being charged with them. What an absolute pair of toilets those two are. I really hope that a satisfactory outcome is arrived at. I have little confidence that any punishments handed down will equate to the years of suffering endured by the families of lost ones but perhaps there will finally be some small degree of closure attained. Irrespective of their ages, these men should be serving time in my book and their fat final salary pensions removed. I really can't find the words to describe the utter contempt I have for them. God alone knows how those actually affected must feel. I can't conceive of it at all. #justiceforthe96 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-40877811 Five men charged over the Hillsborough disaster and its aftermath have appeared in court. The men, including ex-South Yorkshire Police (SYP) chief inspector Sir Norman Bettison, attended Warrington Magistrates' Court in Cheshire. No formal pleas were given for four of the men but former Sheffield Wednesday club secretary Graham Mackrell pleaded not guilty to healthy and safety charges. They were all bailed until next month. The court was told Sir Norman Bettison, who went on to become chief constable of Merseyside Police, Peter Metcalf, who was a solicitor for SYP, former Ch Supt Donald Denton and former Det Ch Insp Alan Foster, will plead not guilty when their cases reach crown court on 6 September. Former Ch Supt David Duckenfield, who is also facing charges over the 1989 disaster, was not required to attend. He was prosecuted privately in 1999 and the CPS is applying to the High Court to lift a court order imposed, which must be removed before Mr Duckenfield can be charged. Mr Duckenfield was match commander at the FA Cup semi-final when 96 Liverpool fans were fatally injured in a crush. The defendants walked past family members of the 96 victims of the disaster who had gathered at the entrance of the court. Speaking outside court, Evelyn Mills, whose brother Peter McDonnell, 21, died in the 1989 tragedy, said: "This is the beginning of another milestone in the history of Hillsborough." Christine Burke, whose father Henry, 47, was among the 96 victims, said: "There is still a long journey but we will see it through." The full list of individuals and charges are: Mr Duckenfield, 72, faces manslaughter by gross negligence of 95 men, women and children Sir Norman, 61, has been charged with four counts of misconduct in a public office relating to alleged lies he told in the aftermath about the culpability of fans Graham Mackrell, former Sheffield Wednesday club secretary, is charged with breaching health and safety and safety at sports ground legislation Peter Metcalf, who was a solicitor acting for SYP, is charged with perverting the course of justice, relating to changes to witness statements Former Ch Supt Donald Denton and former Det Ch Insp Alan Foster are accused of perverting the course of justice Last year, new inquests into the disaster at the Liverpool v Nottingham Forest match, held at Sheffield Wednesday's ground, concluded the fans had been unlawfully killed. The inquests found that Liverpool supporters were not responsible for the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) brought charges following referrals from the Operation Resolve investigation into the causes of the disaster and the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) probe. Last month the CPS said there would be no manslaughter prosecution over the death of the 96th casualty, Anthony Bland, as he died almost four years later, and under the law in 1989 his death is now "out of time" to be prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I know the deaths of 96 people was bad enough but then for the people who are employed to protect us and keep law and order are the ones who covered it up. This doesn't bring much confidence in our law enforcement and shows that corruption and cover ups happen in our police force. The people who covered this up need making an example of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The guy being charged with breach of health and safety legislation will definitely be found guilty. HSE don't lose in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 2 hours ago, davenportram said: The guy being charged with breach of health and safety legislation will definitely be found guilty. HSE don't lose in court. Yeah they do.. Not very often but they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Angry Ram said: Yeah they do.. Not very often but they do. Think it was 2006 and the case was where workers acted outside what their role was and that employers couldn't be held accountable, basically if you act like a t**** and lose a limb or die, it's down to you, not your employer. All others they have crushed the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Unfortunately @86 points whilst I understand and sympathise with the sentiment, it is highly unlikely that pensions could be legally withheld or reduced. The Chief constable should lose his knighthood tho. And if found guilty then the rest should face whatever the maximum penalty allowed by the law is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateDerby Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 As in any job, there are people that kiss arse their way to the top. The officers involved (already up the promotion ladder) would have done anything to keep climbing... Shame the horrorbag woman that organised the cover up is long gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, PrivateDerby said: As in any job, there are people that kiss arse their way to the top. The officers involved (already up the promotion ladder) would have done anything to keep climbing... Shame the horrorbag woman that organised the cover up is long gone... In a different reality, where there is a hell, she would be sitting at Satan's right hand saying "The lady's not for burning" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 hours ago, PrivateDerby said: As in any job, there are people that kiss arse their way to the top. The officers involved (already up the promotion ladder) would have done anything to keep climbing... Shame the horrorbag woman that organised the cover up is long gone... I think I have missed the bit where the inquest said MT organised the cover up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 When this is resolved will the people of Liverpool take any responsibility for their part in the tradegy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, Bridgford Ram said: When this is resolved will the people of Liverpool take any responsibility for their part in the tradegy? I think it was proven that ticket less fans weren't responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Bridgford Ram said: When this is resolved will the people of Liverpool take any responsibility for their part in the tradegy? What part? Provide proof or just keep your hate of Liverpool to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Bridgford Ram said: When this is resolved will the people of Liverpool take any responsibility for their part in the tradegy? What for - being born or going to a match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 A few issues for me here ,firstly there was an error or judgement on the day a tragedy occurred but a genuine error had been made.However to try and cover it up with a web of deceit is absolutely unforgivable and the full weight of the law must be brought down on all involved . Policing of football in that era was shocking with the police at best turning a blind eye to crowd control / violence to actually being part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 15 hours ago, Bridgford Ram said: When this is resolved will the people of Liverpool take any responsibility for their part in the tradegy? Erm, go and read all of the evidence. a short time before the tragedy we played at Hillsborough. The central pen was dangerously full and the side pens almost empty. I know I was there. We had to fight our way out of the central pen and find a way to the side pens. Had it been us that day would you expect the people of Derby to take the blame. Previous semi finals had similar crushing but the fences at the front were either not present or opened. it was a disaster waiting to happen. It could have been any teams fans that the tragedy happened to, it nearly happened many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 1 hour ago, King Kevin said: A few issues for me here ,firstly there was an error or judgement on the day a tragedy occurred but a genuine error had been made.However to try and cover it up with a web of deceit is absolutely unforgivable and the full weight of the law must be brought down on all involved . Policing of football in that era was shocking with the police at best turning a blind eye to crowd control / violence to actually being part of the problem. It wasn't just an error. Dukenfield failed to act within his own knowledge or competence, or take advice from people with experience and competence. It was his first time in charge on match day at Hillsborough. recebtly there was an outbreak of legionella in wales I think. The person in charge of signing off on the purchase of air conditioning units for a building had no knowledge or competence in that field. She failed to seek advice from someone with experience or known competence resulting in units that offered no protection to legionella or meeting the required standards being purchased. She was successfully prosecuted by the HSE because she acted outside of her own competence. very similar cases if in different contexts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, davenportram said: It wasn't just an error. Dukenfield failed to act within his own knowledge or competence, or take advice from people with experience and competence. It was his first time in charge on match day at Hillsborough. recebtly there was an outbreak of legionella in wales I think. The person in charge of signing off on the purchase of air conditioning units for a building had no knowledge or competence in that field. She failed to seek advice from someone with experience or known competence resulting in units that offered no protection to legionella or meeting the required standards being purchased. She was successfully prosecuted by the HSE because she acted outside of her own competence. very similar cases if in different contexts. I call failing to take advice from people with better experience an error of judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, King Kevin said: I call failing to take advice from people with better experience an error of judgement. When it's part of your remit to do so, it's criminal negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 1 hour ago, King Kevin said: I call failing to take advice from people with better experience an error of judgement. Which can be reason for prosecution under health and safety legislation when you act outside of your own competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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