Foreign managers are "sexy"

[Sexydadbod]

Is there truth in what Tony Pulis is saying that British managers aren't given the credit they deserve? I think it's total nonsense. If the British managers were good enough they'd be managing a top 6 club like Sir Alex Ferguson did for Man Utd or Dalgleish with Blackburn. Nationality has nothing to do with it and is typical of the little britain attitude like all foreign players struggle with the pace of the premier league. There simply aren't any quality British managers out there in my opinion. 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11698/10666756/tony-pulis-jurgen-klopps-ideas-no-different-to-mine-or-sean-dyches

[Bridgford Ram]

Correct.  I have said this before on here but why would a team take a chance on a British manager who is unproven at the top level when they can get someone from abroad who has won leagues and managed in the Champions League like Klopp, Mourinho, Conte, Guardiola etc had when they first came to the Premier League.

I would have far more respect for these British Managers if they were willing to go abroad to tier 2/3 type leagues (like Portugal, Holland, France, Belgium for example) and manage title chasing clubs and progress to the CL knockout stages.  If they can do this then there is no reason a top club would employ them and being British would be an advantage.

[Sexydadbod]

16 minutes ago, Bridgford Ram said:

Correct.  I have said this before on here but why would a team take a chance on a British manager who is unproven at the top level when they can get someone from abroad who has won leagues and managed in the Champions League like Klopp, Mourinho, Conte, Guardiola etc had when they first came to the Premier League.

I would have far more respect for these British Managers if they were willing to go abroad to tier 2/3 type leagues (like Portugal, Holland, France, Belgium for example) and manage title chasing clubs and progress to the CL knockout stages.  If they can do this then there is no reason a top club would employ them and being British would be an advantage.

Spot on. People like Tony Pulis drive me insane. They think that all these foreign managers were given their jobs on a plate to them when it's the complete opposite, Mourinho was a translator for Barcelona and worked his way up. Gary Neville may have flopped at Valencia but at least he went out of his comfort zone to try something new. If pulis wants to get a positive reputation then he should try out his trade abroad. That will test how good his coaching methods actually are and would get him out of his comfort zone.

[G STAR RAM]

Don't really get the logic, why would going abroad make you a better manager in the Premier League?

I'll give you a good example of someone who did well abroad and awful in the Premier League...Steve McClaren.

To say there are NO good British managers is just ridiculous and short sighted.

[Sexydadbod]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Don't really get the logic, why would going abroad make you a better manager in the Premier League?

I'll give you a good example of someone who did well abroad and awful in the Premier League...Steve McClaren.

To say there are NO good British managers is just ridiculous and short sighted.

Read our posts again. We aren't saying going abroad will make you a better manager(although imo it does as it makes them adapt to different situations) but if they do well abroad, the top teams in England may take notice and gamble on them. Instead, people like Pulis will continue to moan about not getting the top jobs by staying in their comfort zones. Go out and prove yourself ffs like the other managers have by gambling. On McClaren, he didn't have a good time abroad, he had a mixed time as he flopped at wolfsburg. Management is all a stepping stone, McClaren had the opportunity to go to Wolsfburg because he did well with Twente. I'd suggest that had he had success  at Wolfsburg he would have got the opportunity to go to an even bigger club. It also depends what you consider to be a good manager. There maybe good british managers out there at what they do (e.g. pulis at fighting relegation battles) but in comparison to the top foreign counterparts and how good british managers were 20-30 years ago, they're average overall.

[Bridgford Ram]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Don't really get the logic, why would going abroad make you a better manager in the Premier League?

I'll give you a good example of someone who did well abroad and awful in the Premier League...Steve McClaren.

To say there are NO good British managers is just ridiculous and short sighted.

 

5 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Read our posts again. We aren't saying going abroad will make you a better manager(although imo it does as it makes them adapt to different situations) but if they do well abroad, the top teams in England may take notice and gamble on them. Instead, people like Pulis will continue to moan about not getting the top jobs by staying in their comfort zones. Go out and prove yourself ffs like the other managers have by gambling. On McClaren, he didn't have a good time abroad, he had a mixed time as he flopped at wolfsburg. Management is all a stepping stone, McClaren had the opportunity to go to Wolsfburg because he did well with Twente. I'd suggest that had he had success  at Wolfsburg he would have got the opportunity to go to an even bigger club. It also depends what you consider to be a good manager. There maybe good british managers out there at what they do (e.g. pulis at fighting relegation battles) but in comparison to the top foreign counterparts and how good british managers were 20-30 years ago, they're average overall.

I might be the best football manager in the world but if I didn't prove myself at a decent level no league team would take a punt on me.  Equally why will Chelsea or Liverpool or Man Utd take a chance on a manager like Pulis who bobs around the lower reaches of the Premier League over managers that have won titles in decent European Leagues.  It is a sense of entitlement and it really annoys me.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Them foreign coaches, coming over here, moving our game beyond the tactical level of Tony Pulis...

Lets see, if anything holds back dynamic, exciting, innovative British coaches and managers, it's the likes of Tony Pulis ( in my opinion). Getting survival results using dire football hardly screams to the football world at large "just look what the Brits are doing!"

If we got the foreign managers, money, players and sexy out of the premier league, it'd soon be forgotten outside these shores. 

 

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I'll add, there is no reason that British football can't produce exciting managers/coaches - we have in the past, but who out there looks at the Big Sam or Tony Pulis - who in their own ways have done "a good job" - and thinks they have really "got" the game on an exceptional level?

There are no Clough, Shankley, Fergie level British managers at the moment, not that they might not be brewing, but at that top club level?

 

[G STAR RAM]

So just out of interest what top jobs abroad are available for the likes of Tony Pulis?

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So just out of interest what top jobs abroad are available for the likes of Tony Pulis?

They are taken by "sexy" foreign managers, it's them jonny foreigners doing down an honest Brit (again)

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I disagree that there aren't any decent British managers out there. I have seen plenty at lower levels who simply don't get the opportunity to take the next step up the ladder. This is partly due to unknown foreign coaches coming over but also due to two other factors.

1. Big name ex players with little or no managerial experience going straight into jobs they haven't earned nor have the experience for. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. Barely had a season in charge of a third tier Belgian club then inexplicably got the Burton job after Rowett left. Yes he got Burton up but that Burton did had been built up over a number of seasons and they were already in a favourable league position when Rowett left. Sacked by QPR because IMO he's been found out.

Ryan Giggs is touted for lots of jobs from Prem to Championship. Why? He's never managed. If he wants to manage then fine but start at the bottom like everyone else. Steve Gerrard linked to MK Dons vacancy. Why?!!

Gareth Ainsworth at Wycombe has done remarkably well for them over a number of years with a tiny budget. Give HIM that opportunity. Keith Curle at Carlisle has gone through some tough times as Carlisle boss but they are amazing this season and playing some attractive attacking stuff. Even Paul Tisdale at Exeter. A club struggling for finances, under transfer embargos, run by fans and not an easy place to work at given their restrictions yet he's been there several seasons, developed and sold some cracking youngsters at huge profit to keep the club ticking over as well as drawing some huge cup ties. They've been in league 1 also. All on peanuts. Give HIM the opportunity.

2. Russell Slade. Example. People like Russell Slade who just seem to rotate from mediocre club to mediocre club doing absolutely nothing when one of the promising managers like I've just mentioned could be given those opportunities. Why do managers like Slade keep getting decent jobs?

Managers like Pulis and Warnock are excellent managers, but only at doing one job - keeping a team in the league. They don't have the mentality long term to develop and nurture players into more rounded confident footballers.

Just like IMO if Guardiola or Mourinho managed Burnley. They wouldn't do a better job there than Dyche has. They can only work at the top end with money.

British managers don't get the opportunity to work their way up and then get the chance to manage one if the very top clubs so we will never know if they are capable or not.

Yes Moyes got the Man U job but he was the wrong type of manager there and at the wring time. Just like Mourinho is now IMO.

Eddie Howe over 5 years at say Tottenham with cash to spend. That would be success. Never going to happen though.

 

[Bris Vegas]

Tony Pulis is absoloutely right in that British coaches have the same ideas as Klopp, Pochettino, Guardiola etc. Everybody wants to play winning football, obviously, while most want to do it in an entertaining fashion.

However, there is a diffference between talking and actually doing. You've got to be good on the training ground to get your ideas across. It's no good just having ideas, you've got to implement them.

Do you think Conte at Chelsea just decided to play 3-4-3 and now everything is rosy? Of course not... So much work has gone in on the training ground to get them playing to such a level.

What has Pulis or Dyche shown in terms of how their teams are set up and approach the game that would realistically attract Liverpool? You can't maintain long-term success playing longball, percentage football.

British coaches are lacking. So few have shown the sort of qualities which certain teams are looking for. 

You only have to look at Southampton for instance. They replaced a British coach in Adkins who secured back-to-back promotions with Pochettino, a manager who didn't exactly perform miralces at Espanyol.

Why? It wasn't because of Pochettino's success as a manager, it's because his style of play and training methods could help the Saints reach that next level.

Honestly ask yourself. What British managers has actually shown particular methods or techniques which would entice abig club to go for them? Rodgers was seemingly the best by a mile, yet one season aside he disappointed at Liverpool.

And then there is McClaren, too.

[Bridgford Ram]

I am sure there are Spanish, Dutch and Italian versions of Pulis and Allardyce knocking around their respective leagues and they ain't getting the top Premier League jobs either.  I am not saying that British coaches are incapable, why would they be? What I am saying is that they are not willing to step out of their comfort zone to gain the experience that the top clubs are looking for.

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

So just out of interest what top jobs abroad are available for the likes of Tony Pulis?

I don't think there are the top jobs for the likes of Pulis but I am sure someone like Eddie Howe would interest a decent Dutch or Portuguese side.

[Day]

Philippe Montanier is sexy

[WhiteHorseRam]

11 hours ago, McLovin said:

Is there truth in what Tony Pulis is saying that British managers aren't given the credit they deserve? I think it's total nonsense. If the British managers were good enough they'd be managing a top 6 club like Sir Alex Ferguson did for Man Utd or Dalgleish with Blackburn. Nationality has nothing to do with it and is typical of the little britain attitude like all foreign players struggle with the pace of the premier league. There simply aren't any quality British managers out there in my opinion. 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11698/10666756/tony-pulis-jurgen-klopps-ideas-no-different-to-mine-or-sean-dyches

Question: Would Liverpool be where they are if they had Pulis instead of Klopp?

I wonder if there is some resentment amongst British managers as the foreigners upset what appears to be something of a 'mate-ocracy' that exists with older British managers.

Its also always horses for courses. The Tinkerman went into the Foxes at just the right time, and his approach clicked with the fans and certainly the players. Moyes was always doomed, as was anybody trying to immediately fill the Fergie boots.

[G STAR RAM]

37 minutes ago, Bridgford Ram said:

I am sure there are Spanish, Dutch and Italian versions of Pulis and Allardyce knocking around their respective leagues and they ain't getting the top Premier League jobs either.  I am not saying that British coaches are incapable, why would they be? What I am saying is that they are not willing to step out of their comfort zone to gain the experience that the top clubs are looking for.

I don't think there are the top jobs for the likes of Pulis but I am sure someone like Eddie Howe would interest a decent Dutch or Portuguese side.

See now I take issue with things like this.

Eddie Howe kept his team in the football league despite starting on -17 points. He got them promoted up through the leagues and now has them playing decent football in the Premier League, but to 'prove himself' he has to go abroad. Really?

Despite this the top English clubs would overlook him in favour of a foreign coach who has won 2 or 3 titles spending £500billion in the process. 

If these foreign managers are so brilliant why do they need to spend such large sums of money? When was the last time a British manager spent £100m in a season?

It's exactly the same with players. How many bang average foreigners are brought over here at the expense of developing young British players.

In my eyes it's this strange obsession with foreign football that has completely killed the English set up.

 

[Day]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

See now I take issue with things like this.

Eddie Howe kept his team in the football league despite starting on -17 points. He got them promoted up through the leagues and now has them playing decent football in the Premier League, but to 'prove himself' he has to go abroad. Really?

Despite this the top English clubs would overlook him in favour of a foreign coach who has won 2 or 3 titles spending £500billion in the process. 

If these foreign managers are so brilliant why do they need to spend such large sums of money? When was the last time a British manager spent £100m in a season?

It's exactly the same with players. How many bang average foreigners are brought over here at the expense of developing young British players.

In my eyes it's this strange obsession with foreign football that has completely killed the English set up.

 

Guardiola £181m spent and he's not been at Man City 6 months.

I reckon even Tony Pulis could have walked into Man City and taken them 3rd with that kind of money.

Would be hard for him to **** it up at Barca and Bayern as well. 

They wouldn't give him the opportunity to tho as he's not as "sexy" as Guardiola.

Bris and McLovin would/will disagree.

[Anon]

8 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

1. Big name ex players with little or no managerial experience going straight into jobs they haven't earned nor have the experience for. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. Barely had a season in charge of a third tier Belgian club then inexplicably got the Burton job after Rowett left. Yes he got Burton up but that Burton did had been built up over a number of seasons and they were already in a favourable league position when Rowett left. Sacked by QPR because IMO he's been found out.

I agree in principle, but you could hardly have picked a worse example than Hasselbaink. Were do you expect new managers to start if the 4th tier isn't open to them? It's also hypocritical, considering that two of the three managers you give as examples of doing things the right way began their careers in the 4th and 3rd tier respectively with even less experience than Hasselbaink.

[Sexydadbod]

I genuinely think that some British managers are scared and jealous of foreigners(coincidentally the ones making the noises are from the older generation) because people like Howe have embraced foreign influences(particularly on his own management style)Every British footballer and manager who have gone abroad say the experience has improved them(including mcclaren). Ironically these foreign managers and players are helping people like pulis earn more money. Want to see the impact of no quality foreign exports? Look no further than the spl. The prem would just be that league as people aren't interested in the premier league for the British players and managers believe it or not, they are interested in seeing the likes of Man City and Liverpool battle it out with klopp at and guardiola at the helm respectively. No-one abroad watches the premier league to watch West Brom survive every year.

[Sexydadbod]

53 minutes ago, David said:

Guardiola £181m spent and he's not been at Man City 6 months.

I reckon even Tony Pulis could have walked into Man City and taken them 3rd with that kind of money.

Would be hard for him to **** it up at Barca and Bayern as well. 

They wouldn't give him the opportunity to tho as he's not as "sexy" as Guardiola.

Bris and McLovin would/will disagree.

There's a reason why these foreign managers are allowed to spend that much money, it's because they have proved themselves wherever they have been. Want to see an example of British managers when they have money to spend? Look at the crap that mosey spent at Man Utd and Rodgers at Liverpool