Term time holiday fines scrapped in Derbyshire

[Wolfie]

And about time, too...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37429748

Fines for taking children on holiday in school term time are being largely abandoned by a local authority.

A surge in the £60 charges followed a change in government guidelines which said such absences were only permitted in "exceptional circumstances".

But the policy was thrown into confusion in May when the High Court ruled a single holiday did not break rules on regular attendance.

Now Derbyshire County Council has said only extreme cases will be fined.

In the 2014/2015 school year, Derbyshire County Council handed out nearly 3,200 of the £60 per child, per week fines - the fifth highest number in the country.

The High Court ruling, which is the subject of an appeal, left education authorities having to decide how to apply the existing rules and subsequently a number of court cases were abandoned.

Derbyshire County Council has confirmed its "interim arrangements", which state if attendance is above 94% - equivalent to missing 11 or 12 days - over the previous 12 months, only a warning letter will be issued.

Katherine Boulton, the council's service director for schools and learning, said: "We strongly recommend that pupils should not be taken out of school during term time.

"But there are always exceptional circumstances and the council believes these measures are fair and proportionate."

Craig Langman, of campaign group Parents Want A Say, said: "This is great news. We have heard of some parents who were facing action, checking on the progress of cases against them, only to be told their child's attendance now comes within acceptable limits.

"But this is the first instance I know of where a education authority has clearly stated new guidelines. It's a great step and we encourage others to follow suit."

[Stive Pesley]

Does this cover schools in the City Council jurisdiction? I suspect not

A welcome step in the right direction though.

[Stive Pesley]

Ah - City Council now reviewing it's policy

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/now-derby-reviews-its-term-time-holiday-fines-policy/story-29738861-detail/story.html

[StringerBell]

Good. Deal with the issue at hand and stop punishing everyone for what parents in Normanton are doing (month long trips 'back home')

[LesterRam]

if they stopped the price hike on holidays during term time the less fortunate would go in the designated holiday time, what do you say to your kids, sorry kids Butlins have bumped up the holiday by 200% so you will need to entertain yourself this next 6 weeks, another shitty policy that was thought out on the back of a fag packet.

[Wolfie]

11 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

if they stopped the price hike on holidays during term time the less fortunate would go in the designated holiday time, what do you say to your kids, sorry kids Butlins have bumped up the holiday by 200% so you will need to entertain yourself this next 6 weeks, another shitty policy that was thought out on the back of a fag packet.

I assume you mean the price hike during school holidays but that would be unworkable and unfair. Supply and demand.

Hopefully other regions will follow suit and the big price peak will be spread a few weeks either side of the summer holidays.

Typing as someone who wasn't expecting to have kids, I was obviously glad that we had the freedom at the time to be able to enjoy cheap holidays in June or September (usually both). Now I (thankfully) do have a child but I wouldn't want to impose higher prices on people like I used to be just so I could be subsidised to go away during peak demand times.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Agree Lester. What those who made the rules up in the first place fail to grasp is that struggling families who are barely existing are arguably in most need of a break to stop them from having mental health problems / breakdown or maybe turning to alcohol to cope with the incessant slog that is bringing kids up in 2016. Stress takes it's toll on us all and those slightly more fortunate can take themselves off to Greece or something for a week and recharge. Others can't and have to fill that week with their kids finding things for them to do. They don't get a break. Even a weekend in Cleethorpes wouldn't be cheap in summer holidays. Not to mention that time spent away from humdrum with family can also be of great benefit to the whole family.

I just think that a week a year out of school during sensible periods when no exams etc isn't too detrimental and would allow a family to hire a caravan for week in say Norfolk for about 200 quid where during the 6 weeks it would be around a grand.

I understand schools have rules but it's just common sense IMO. If it's abused or turns out it's causing a problem to the childs schooling then fine parents.

 

[LesterRam]

56 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I assume you mean the price hike during school holidays but that would be unworkable and unfair. Supply and demand.

Hopefully other regions will follow suit and the big price peak will be spread a few weeks either side of the summer holidays.

Typing as someone who wasn't expecting to have kids, I was obviously glad that we had the freedom at the time to be able to enjoy cheap holidays in June or September (usually both). Now I (thankfully) do have a child but I wouldn't want to impose higher prices on people like I used to be just so I could be subsidised to go away during peak demand times.

If I increased your car insurance premium during July-August because you used your car more would you accept this? do you think the FCA would allow me to do this?

so if your both working on minimum wage and struggling to go on holiday during term time with the kids its unfair in what way, should they take the children off peak and face a financial penalty for being poor or just pay 200% more and not face the wrath of your council?

[Wolfie]

34 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

If I increased your car insurance premium during July-August because you used your car more would you accept this? do you think the FCA would allow me to do this?

Off topic a bit but when I apply for insurance I have to state my annual miles, so I would pay more for higher mileage anyway. If the technology was readily available, then I think the insurance companies would price based on all sorts of risk factors. Eventually all the cars will be fitted with monitoring devices anyway for road pricing purposes as well as enforcement, so I'm sure the insurance companies would love to use the data for pricing also. We'll have to see how the market responds to that.

Have you ever sold something on ebay?. Did you sell to the highest bidder?. Or did you sell at a lower price to somebody else who couldn't afford, or didn't want to outbid the winner?. Really?. That's what you're expecting the holiday firms to do.

Quote

so if your both working on minimum wage and struggling to go on holiday during term time with the kids its unfair in what way, should they take the children off peak and face a financial penalty for being poor or just pay 200% more and not face the wrath of your council?

The council penalising families with otherwise good attendance records is unfair.

Artificially inflating out of season holiday prices to subsidise families to go away in school holidays is also unfair but also unworkable. Who gets to decide how much profit the tour operators / airlines etc are allowed to make and when?.

Paying 200% more for holidays in peak time isn't very nice, I agree, but it's not unfair. The companies wouldn't be able to charge that much if people weren't prepared to pay it.

In your example, the family should go on holiday in term time as long as they do their utmost to ensure that the kids catch up on missed work and attendance is otherwise as good as it could be. Kids do get ill.

The whole penalties thing was stupid from the start. How is a £60 fine going to be a deterrant if you could easily save £hundreds by booking in term time?. All it does is cause anger and resentment between parents and schools who, funnily enough, seem a bit more relaxed about missed lesson time when they close for teacher strikes.

[Zag zig]

1 hour ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

I just think that a week a year out of school during sensible periods when no exams etc isn't too detrimental and would allow a family to hire a caravan for week in say Norfolk for about 200 quid where during the 6 weeks it would be around a grand.

I understand schools have rules but it's just common sense IMO. If it's abused or turns out it's causing a problem to the childs schooling then fine parents.

You're right i.m.o can I add it really doesn't matter what level of disposable income, the whole concept of paying more for a 6 week period in summer or 2 weeks Easter and Christmas is simply profiteering by those in the holiday industry; you can't blame them, supply and demand indeed.

This allows a more measured consumer approach. Our kids schooled in Leicestershire, so fortunately we could save a bundle as they always break at least a week early for years  to much of the U.K but when we switched to Staffordshire, we simply took them out the last week; most of the time it's wind down stuff, particularly before the summer break.

[LesterRam]

31 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Off topic a bit but when I apply for insurance I have to state my annual miles, so I would pay more for higher mileage anyway. If the technology was readily available, then I think the insurance companies would price based on all sorts of risk factors. Eventually all the cars will be fitted with monitoring devices anyway for road pricing purposes as well as enforcement, so I'm sure the insurance companies would love to use the data for pricing also. We'll have to see how the market responds to that.

Have you ever sold something on ebay?. Did you sell to the highest bidder?. Or did you sell at a lower price to somebody else who couldn't afford, or didn't want to outbid the winner?. Really?. That's what you're expecting the holiday firms to do.

The council penalising families with otherwise good attendance records is unfair.

Artificially inflating out of season holiday prices to subsidise families to go away in school holidays is also unfair but also unworkable. Who gets to decide how much profit the tour operators / airlines etc are allowed to make and when?.

Paying 200% more for holidays in peak time isn't very nice, I agree, but it's not unfair. The companies wouldn't be able to charge that much if people weren't prepared to pay it.

In your example, the family should go on holiday in term time as long as they do their utmost to ensure that the kids catch up on missed work and attendance is otherwise as good as it could be. Kids do get ill.

The whole penalties thing was stupid from the start. How is a £60 fine going to be a deterrant if you could easily save £hundreds by booking in term time?. All it does is cause anger and resentment between parents and schools who, funnily enough, seem a bit more relaxed about missed lesson time when they close for teacher strikes.

you make the insurance industry sound like its stuck in the 1970's mate, you go on my site and I will know exactly who you are through IP location software, I will know exactly which previous sites you have visited and probably the quote you received from your cookie dart, also what your previous premium was, all in a second.

we do have monitoring technology for high risk drivers, telematics data or black box insurance is a fantastic way of lowering your premium, unfortunately we still cant increase your premium mid-term for your holidays and rightly so.

 

 

 

 

[GboroRam]

Give schoolchildren allowable absences like workers. Abolish the 6 week holiday. Holiday firms would hate it but I think you'd get more families taking holidays as it'd not mean they have to pay a premium just because the state makes you have holiday during a fixed period which the leisure industry can abuse.

[Day]

The obvious solution in all this is not to have kids

[LesterRam]

1 minute ago, David said:

The obvious solution in all this is not to have kids

have you tried IVF?

[Day]

12 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

have you tried IVF?

Steady on, I've not tried sex yet

[LesterRam]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Steady on, I've not tried sex yet

Yeah your missus mentioned you've been trying, you'll get there.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

2 hours ago, David said:

The obvious solution in all this is not to have kids

• Mistakes happen...........................

[Stive Pesley]

15 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Give schoolchildren allowable absences like workers. Abolish the 6 week holiday. Holiday firms would hate it

So would teachers - imagine trying to plan classes and curriculum around that, then having to deal with all the kids who are behind on certain topics, but all having missed different bits. A noble idea, but there is no complete solution to the issue other than applying discretion instead of  draconian fines

[eddie]

15 hours ago, David said:

The obvious solution in all this is not to have kids

Two should be a maximum.

[Day]

6 minutes ago, eddie said:

Two should be a maximum.

Nah, everyone should be entitled to have as many kids as they can financially afford.

Can't stop people popping kids out but the government could stop funding those that use their ovaries as a career choice.

Would save a few bob right there.

Take away the politicians free houses with multiple kitchens and stop following America into these oil wars as well and this country will soon be rolling in the cash.

#VoteDavid