Wolfie20 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 21 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: How so? If you've watched the game then you'll know. Gives a penalty when there was a 50/50 shoulder charge then doesn't give one on an obvious handball - Monreal was 2 - 3 yards away and raised his arms in an 'unnatural' way. In my opinion that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: If you've watched the game then you'll know. Gives a penalty when there was a 50/50 shoulder charge then doesn't give one on an obvious handball - Monreal was 2 - 3 yards away and raised his arms in an 'unnatural' way. In my opinion that is! Presumably the referee's opinion was different. Personally, I didn't think the handball was deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Presumably the referee's opinion was different. Personally, I didn't think the handball was deliberate. His opinion was different - no presumption about it. Doesn't necessarily make him right (or wrong) but referees shouldn't be 'the Untouchables'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Just now, Wolfie20 said: His opinion was different - no presumption about it. Doesn't necessarily make him right (or wrong) but referees shouldn't be 'the Untouchables'. Ok, but the referees only operate on opinion where such things are concerned. If he thinks the handball wasn't deliberate, he can't give a penalty. If the ref comes in front of the camera at the end, all he is going to say is, 'I didn't think it was deliberate.' The only way the ref can be shown to be wrong is if the player confesses that he handled deliberately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Ok, but the referees only operate on opinion where such things are concerned. If he thinks the handball wasn't deliberate, he can't give a penalty. If the ref comes in front of the camera at the end, all he is going to say is, 'I didn't think it was deliberate.' The only way the ref can be shown to be wrong is if the player confesses that he handled deliberately. Have you ever refereed (at any level)? It's a thankless job but that doesn't mean there aren't good ones and not-so-good officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Wolfie20 said: Have you ever refereed (at any level)? It's a thankless job but that doesn't mean there aren't good ones and not-so-good officials. You are right but the ref's performance didn't seem especially inept to me. I didn't see much evidence of him misapplying the laws of the game (though I didn't watch the whole game and didn't see the penalty decision). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: You are right but the ref's performance didn't seem especially inept to me. I didn't see much evidence of him misapplying the laws of the game (though I didn't watch the whole game and didn't see the penalty decision). Misapplying the laws isn't the question - it's more how he sees the incident and his interpretation of said incident. Isn't getting most of those correct the difference between the top referees and those lower down the leagues? In cricket it always used to be said that the umpire was right and his decision final. If a ball hit the pad and the umpire thought it was hitting leg stump, then he would give the batsman out. In his view he applied the laws of cricket - was the batsman playing a shot, did it pitch between wicket and wicket, would the ball have hit the stumps etc etc? At the highest level, modern technology frequently proves that mistakes are made, even though, in the opinion of the umpire, he has applied the laws of the game. It's reasonable to assume that in all sports, the best referees get most of the decisions correct otherwise how are they judged for promotion to the top tier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 30 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Misapplying the laws isn't the question - it's more how he sees the incident and his interpretation of said incident. Isn't getting most of those correct the difference between the top referees and those lower down the leagues? In cricket it always used to be said that the umpire was right and his decision final. If a ball hit the pad and the umpire thought it was hitting leg stump, then he would give the batsman out. In his view he applied the laws of cricket - was the batsman playing a shot, did it pitch between wicket and wicket, would the ball have hit the stumps etc etc? At the highest level, modern technology frequently proves that mistakes are made, even though, in the opinion of the umpire, he has applied the laws of the game. It's reasonable to assume that in all sports, the best referees get most of the decisions correct otherwise how are they judged for promotion to the top tier? For me, the best referees are not necessarily ones that get most of their decisions 'right' - some of what is right (who last touched the ball before it went out, whether a free kick is direct or indirect etc) is easy to get right; others are a matter of opinion (the aforementioned deliberate handball or not, for example), and so cannot be proved 'wrong' by any number of jobbing pundits, no matter how loudly they insist otherwise. All refs get most of their decisions 'right'. The best ones are those who position themselves to be able to best see what's going on and also handle the players in such a way as to get them to behave themselves as best they can. And those that are not swayed by the anger of the mob, most of whom do not know the laws of the game as well as the ref does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 The obsession with referees in English football is utterly bizarre. Barely happens anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: The obsession with referees in English football is utterly bizarre. Barely happens anywhere else. To claim that commenting about referees is an obsession is ludicrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWC1983 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Been to Aberdeen v Celtic cup final. Unfortunately we didn't turn up and got a pasting. Train journey to Derby tomorrow will be very long and tedious..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 4 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: The obsession with referees in English football is utterly bizarre. Barely happens anywhere else. Obviously Johnny Foreigner accepts cheating more than us Brits..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Watching MotD.....good to see Man Ure back to their Fergie era mardy best. Crying like little girls every time a decision goes against them...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Wolfie20 said: To claim that commenting about referees is an obsession is ludicrous In English football there is an obsession with the referees. So much talk about them. Everybody knows their names. 'Ref watch', MOTD interviews talking about the referees, having Howard Webb work with Sky or BT Sport commenting on every decision. Even when referees get the decision correct, he still gets criticised for having bad positioning or delaying etc. Jose Mourinho coming out afterwards saying X referee is a good one, one of the best... It never used to be like this, but it has crept into the English game more and more over the years and now it's a full on obsession to talk about the performance of the referee. In no other sport do they do this, and in football in hardly any other country do they do this. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1... Nobody talks about the referee. Nobody cares. It's just another English mentality of laying the blame elsewhere for their own shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: In English football there is an obsession with the referees. So much talk about them. Everybody knows their names. 'Ref watch', MOTD interviews talking about the referees, having Howard Webb work with Sky or BT Sport commenting on every decision. Even when referees get the decision correct, he still gets criticised for having bad positioning or delaying etc. Jose Mourinho coming out afterwards saying X referee is a good one, one of the best... It never used to be like this, but it has crept into the English game more and more over the years and now it's a full on obsession to talk about the performance of the referee. In no other sport do they do this, and in football in hardly any other country do they do this. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1... Nobody talks about the referee. Nobody cares. It's just another English mentality of laying the blame elsewhere for their own shortcomings. Well I can tell you now they do in other sports, in fact rugby certainly have and the same ref keeps getting brought up. What other sports do the referee have such a big imoact in the game? Also other sports have embraced technology to help them come to the right decisions. It isn't a new obsession, back in the 90s were singing about Graham Poll. The chant the referee's a ****** has been around for as long as I can remember (over 20 years). Fergie has been calling the ref ever since he was getting interviewed by the tv cameras straight after games. I believe Clough had a thing or 2 to say about the referee from our match against Juve. So your saying Jose Mourinho didn't talk about the referees before he joined Chelsea? And he stopped when he was at Inter and Real but started back up again when he rejoined Chelsea? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, rynny said: Well I can tell you now they do in other sports, in fact rugby certainly have and the same ref keeps getting brought up. What other sports do the referee have such a big imoact in the game? Also other sports have embraced technology to help them come to the right decisions. It isn't a new obsession, back in the 90s were singing about Graham Poll. The chant the referee's a ****** has been around for as long as I can remember (over 20 years). Fergie has been calling the ref ever since he was getting interviewed by the tv cameras straight after games. I believe Clough had a thing or 2 to say about the referee from our match against Juve. So your saying Jose Mourinho didn't talk about the referees before he joined Chelsea? And he stopped when he was at Inter and Real but started back up again when he rejoined Chelsea? ? What I'm saying is in English football there is this extra emphasis to analyse the referees performance even when it's not worthy of discussion and only in England do they do this. You don't get programs like MOTD, BT Sport and Sky forever running through tapes and analysing the referees performance in other leagues. Nobody cares enough to do it. But in England there is an obsession with it, and it has grown to ridiculous levels in recent years. It's different a manager deflecting a poor performance or result by talking about the referee to the media after the game. This I'm not surprised by, it's standard and has been for years. But what hasn't been standard for years is all the pundits, supporters and general observers forever analysing the performance of the referee. I really don't understand why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Barcelona really struggled last night away at Real Sociedad. Clinical piece of play from both Neymar and Messi for their immediate equaliser but they were under the cosh all game and rarely threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 19 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: In English football there is an obsession with the referees. So much talk about them. Everybody knows their names. 'Ref watch', MOTD interviews talking about the referees, having Howard Webb work with Sky or BT Sport commenting on every decision. Even when referees get the decision correct, he still gets criticised for having bad positioning or delaying etc. Jose Mourinho coming out afterwards saying X referee is a good one, one of the best... It never used to be like this, but it has crept into the English game more and more over the years and now it's a full on obsession to talk about the performance of the referee. In no other sport do they do this, and in football in hardly any other country do they do this. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1... Nobody talks about the referee. Nobody cares. It's just another English mentality of laying the blame elsewhere for their own shortcomings. No other country? They might not talk about them but don't mind attacking the refs http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/bomb-attack-on-cypriot-football-referees-car-35082659.html https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/croatia-vs-spain-croatian-supporters-plan-attack-on-referee-during-euro-2016-group-d-clash-a7094076.html%3Famp?client=safari http://the18.com/soccer-news/spains-first-openly-gay-referee-attacked-death-threats https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rt.com/document/571dcb83c46188c8588b45d6/amp?client=safari https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1913975/watch-the-shocking-moment-a-referee-brutally-beaten-by-thug-fans-during-a-game-in-argentina-after-awarding-penalty/amp/?client=safari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 19 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: In English football there is an obsession with the referees. So much talk about them. Everybody knows their names. 'Ref watch', MOTD interviews talking about the referees, having Howard Webb work with Sky or BT Sport commenting on every decision. Even when referees get the decision correct, he still gets criticised for having bad positioning or delaying etc. Jose Mourinho coming out afterwards saying X referee is a good one, one of the best... It never used to be like this, but it has crept into the English game more and more over the years and now it's a full on obsession to talk about the performance of the referee. In no other sport do they do this, and in football in hardly any other country do they do this. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1... Nobody talks about the referee. Nobody cares. It's just another English mentality of laying the blame elsewhere for their own shortcomings. What are you on about? Do you not remember the massive Italian refereeing scandal 2006? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 La Liga doesn't talk about refs http://www.talkingbaws.com/2016/10/valencia-sporting-director-fails-to-mention-fans-as-criticises-barcelona-and-referees/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3526490/Atletico-outraged-hints-referee-bias-favor-Barcelona.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/8474815/Real-Madrid-v-Barcelona-Jose-Mourinho-mocks-Pep-Guardiola-over-referee-comments.html https://www.google.co.uk/amp/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2587524-neymar-slams-referee-clos-gomez-after-barcelona-beat-villarreal-3-0-in-la-liga.amp.html?client=safari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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