Central Defenders

[Dethorn]

As an ex Central Defender Myself (Although not to a great standard) I find the critisism of Shackell very hard to take. I am not saying I think he is great, but I do think he gets an unfair amount of critisism on here.

I do think he could have maybe done a little better on the first goal on Saturday but I do think he was only beaten by a bit of pace and not by bottling it as some have suggested.

I also prefer him to Keogh and personally I think Shackell has made life a lot easier for Keogh and hence improved his performances. However Keogh does still scare the life out of me, cos you never know where his next mistake might come from.

The best I ever played was in a six year partnership with the sasme guy, a lot of that position comes down to teamwork and instinctively knowing what the other will do. From that respect Shackell is very consistent, making it easier for Keogh to rely on.

For Hulls second Shackells only mistake was being in exactly the right place.

I also feel that apart from Barker, and the occasional Buxton game he is our best central defender in recent times.

Give him a break, sorry had to get that off my chest.

[Dale The Ram]

Just now, Dethorn said:

As an ex Central Defender Myself (Although not to a great standard) I find the critisism of Shackell very hard to take. I am not saying I think he is great, but I do think he gets an unfair amount of critisism on here.

I do think he could have maybe done a little better on the first goal on Saturday but I do think he was only beaten by a bit of pace and not by bottling it as some have suggested.

I also prefer him to Keogh and personally I think Shackell has made life a lot easier for Keogh and hence improved his performances. However Keogh does still scare the life out of me, cos you never know where his next mistake might come from.

The best I ever played was in a six year partnership with the sasme guy, a lot of that position comes down to teamwork and instinctively knowing what the other will do. From that respect Shackell is very consistent, making it easier for Keogh to rely on.

For Hulls second Shackells only mistake was being in exactly the right place.

I also feel that apart from Barker, and the occasional Buxton game he is our best central defender in recent times.

Give him a break, sorry had to get that off my chest.

I can't help but think if he hadn't of got that injury and he played alongside Shackell our promotion wouldve been achieved a long time ago

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

51 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

As an ex Central Defender Myself (Although not to a great standard) I find the critisism of Shackell very hard to take. I am not saying I think he is great, but I do think he gets an unfair amount of critisism on here.

I do think he could have maybe done a little better on the first goal on Saturday but I do think he was only beaten by a bit of pace and not by bottling it as some have suggested.

I also prefer him to Keogh and personally I think Shackell has made life a lot easier for Keogh and hence improved his performances. However Keogh does still scare the life out of me, cos you never know where his next mistake might come from.

The best I ever played was in a six year partnership with the sasme guy, a lot of that position comes down to teamwork and instinctively knowing what the other will do. From that respect Shackell is very consistent, making it easier for Keogh to rely on.

For Hulls second Shackells only mistake was being in exactly the right place.

I also feel that apart from Barker, and the occasional Buxton game he is our best central defender in recent times.

Give him a break, sorry had to get that off my chest.

That's the mistake you're making. EVERYONE gets an unfair amount of criticism on here................except for Camara! 

[RadioactiveWaste]

17 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

..............except for Camara! 

DCFC players improve by not playing games.

I'm pretty sure since he was injured Craig Forsythe has become a hybrid monster combing the attacking flair of Roberto Carlos, the defensive commitment of Stewart Pearce and the champions league know how of Tyrone Meares.

Give Camara starts in the next two matches and watch the vitriol flow...

[EnigmaRam]

I think they are both good defenders. Not saying there aren't better out there but at what price? Wouldn't mind Dunk though

[richinspain]

38 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Give Camara starts in the next two matches and watch the vitriol flow...

I presume they are against Hull tonight and Sheffield Wednesday on the 28th?

[Uptherams]

Shackell is a rock solid defender for this league. Has zero pace, can't really pass and isn't very mobile. But he is a very good defender, especially when we consider who he is up against in the league. The best CB's in this league are all the same as him. Same strengths and weaknesses. It frustrates me when I see Shackell yet again making non progressive passes or running at such a low speed or generally not covering much ground. But people are letting that get in the way of what a good CB looks like in this league. It was exactly the same as with Albentosa. There might be that diamond in the rough CB somewhere that has all of the strengths of Keogh but no of the weaknesses. But we are not going to find them and take them before anyone else does at the click of your fingers. Our best chance is to nurture them (Rawson). 

Take Dawson. People are saying how good he was on Saturday. He's exactly like Keogh is, as is all the best CB's of this league. 

Time and again he has bested his competitors. Shackell has been undone by more unlucky deflections this season than he has by incompetence or being bested. I can't look back at the season and say what Shackell did was fundamentally wrong in this or that scenario or an opposition player had run him ragged on more than a handful of occasions. I don't question his ability to defend. 

While Keogh has strengths Shackell doesn't. Such as pace, makes progressive passes and is mobile. He isn't as good a defender. He is also inconsistent in his defending and makes a big mistake almost every game. It doesn't mean he isn't a good defender. But Keogh has had three attempts to get us up. 

All too often people conflate what makes a defender good based on what they see and how they see it. A nice slide tackle looks good. How often do we see Shackell slide tackle? He doesn't because he get's his positioning right and his approach to an oncoming attacker right. Before this season I would be concerned every time a team countered us or had the ball outside our box. After just a few games of Shackell in the lineup that feeling completely disappeared. 

[Dethorn]

4 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Shackell is a rock solid defender for this league. Has zero pace, can't really pass and isn't very mobile. But he is a very good defender, especially when we consider who he is up against in the league. The best CB's in this league are all the same as him. Same strengths and weaknesses. It frustrates me when I see Shackell yet again making non progressive passes or running at such a low speed or generally not covering much ground. But people are letting that get in the way of what a good CB looks like in this league. It was exactly the same as with Albentosa. There might be that diamond in the rough CB somewhere that has all of the strengths of Keogh but no of the weaknesses. But we are not going to find them and take them before anyone else does at the click of your fingers. Our best chance is to nurture them (Rawson). 

Take Dawson. People are saying how good he was on Saturday. He's exactly like Keogh is, as is all the best CB's of this league. 

Time and again he has bested his competitors. Shackell has been undone by more unlucky deflections this season than he has by incompetence or being bested. I can't look back at the season and say what Shackell did was fundamentally wrong in this or that scenario or an opposition player had run him ragged on more than a handful of occasions. I don't question his ability to defend. 

While Keogh has strengths Shackell doesn't. Such as pace, makes progressive passes and is mobile. He isn't as good a defender. He is also inconsistent in his defending and makes a big mistake almost every game. It doesn't mean he isn't a good defender. But Keogh has had three attempts to get us up. 

All too often people conflate what makes a defender good based on what they see and how they see it. A nice slide tackle looks good. How often do we see Shackell slide tackle? He doesn't because he get's his positioning right and his approach to an oncoming attacker right. Before this season I would be concerned every time a team countered us or had the ball outside our box. After just a few games of Shackell in the lineup that feeling completely disappeared. 

A really well written response, thank you. It maybe helps to explain something of why I relate to Shackell, in my own partnership there is no doubting I was the slower, less cultured one   But my defensive partner always said that knowing I was there being solid made his life very easy.

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, Dethorn said:

A really well written response, thank you. It maybe helps to explain something of why I relate to Shackell, in my own partnership there is no doubting I was the slower, less cultured one   But my defensive partner always said that knowing I was there being solid made his life very easy.

Made a mistake:

Take Dawson. People are saying how good he was on Saturday. He's exactly like Keogh is, as is all the best CB's of this league. 

Meant Shackell.